Making Units Region Specific

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

Hmm I have very serious doubts about playability of that many factions, especially given the restrictions on AI ... what this would end with would be player faction quickly conquering all the multitude of small factions and winning the game in a jiffy.

That won't happen because the player will have more difficulty to expand than in RTW's release version. In the EB MOD, it is already much harder to expand. And we're just at the beggining.

That, or there would be constant chaos with nobody reaching any advantage on the map.

This is more likely, because of the harder expansion, but not that much, because there will be a turning point in which some factions can get an edge on others.

Plus, the turns would take ages to end. The idea scares me. Do you guys still want to _play_ this mod, or just gaze in wonder at its many marvels?

What's the problem of much harder campaigns? It will increase interest, not lower it. The challenge will be that much greater.

(where did the 32 number come from, anyway? Isn't this just somebody's fantasy?)

I don't think so. IIRC, it's CA info. Hard-coded number.

[eadingas]

That won't happen because the player will have more difficulty to expand than in RTW's release version. In the EB MOD, it is already much harder to expand. And we're just at the beggining.

The player will _always_ expand faster than the AI, unless you give him a handicap, and I don't think it's possible. So the expansion may be slower overall, but it will be definitely easier with more factions than with less.

This is more likely, because of the harder expansion, but not that much, because there will be a turning point in which some factions can get an edge on others.

Oh?

What's the problem of much harder campaigns? It will increase interest, not lower it. The challenge will be that much greater.

The problem is that the hardness will not come from increased challenge, but from the game getting tedious and tiresome. From my gaming experience, many small enemies quickly become a bore, unless the AI is challenging. And we really can't do anything to change that.

I don't think so. IIRC, it's CA info. Hard-coded number.

Good to know.

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

The player will _always_ expand faster than the AI, unless you give him a handicap, and I don't think it's possible. So the expansion may be slower overall, but it will be definitely easier with more factions than with less.

Yes, although it's a question for later stages - balancing the game. But by slowing the expansion you'll make life harder for the player everytime he plays the game. He won't rule over Europe in 200BC, only much later in the game.

BTW, you could discuss this with khelvan. He probably can tell you more about economical and strategical factors.

Oh?

Because some factions will always be stronger than others.

In the case of very balanced AI factions, a single battle can decide the long term fate of one faction, by unbalancing it economically and territorially enough for that faction to be crippled in the long run. But in balanced AI factions, it can happen both ways, creating imprevisibility. Probably depending on the opposing general's triats in that particular battle.

From previous experiences, I believe that this kind of balance can be achieved in the MOD. There won't be a roll-over-everyone faction...

The problem is that the hardness will not come from increased challenge, but from the game getting tedious and tiresome. From my gaming experience, many small enemies quickly become a bore, unless the AI is challenging. And we really can't do anything to change that.

But the factions will be very different from RTW's release. And since they are much more, this will enrich the strategical diplomacy game much more.

And I still hope for an improved AI in the Expansion. This MOD will continue to develop after that has been released.

[eadingas]

Because some factions will always be stronger than others.

In the case of very balanced AI factions, a single battle can decide the long term fate of one faction, by unbalancing it economically and territorially enough for that faction to be crippled in the long run. But in balanced AI factions, it can happen both ways, creating imprevisibility. Probably depending on the opposing general's triats in that particular battle.

Oh, that. I see. For a while there I thought you managed to introduce some kind of balancing event in the game :)

But the factions will be very different from RTW's release. And since they are much more, this will enrich the strategical diplomacy game much more.

Hopefully. We shall see. Don't say I didn't warn you if things go wrong, though :P

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

Oh, that. I see. For a while there I thought you managed to introduce some kind of balancing event in the game :)

Nope. AFAIK...

Hopefully. We shall see. Don't say I didn't warn you if things go wrong, though :P

LOL We shall see if that happens and I'm confident we all shall sort the problems out...

[khelvan]

BTW, you could discuss this with khelvan. He probably can tell you more about economical and strategical factors.

This is as good a place as any to begin discussion on the current choices we have for playing with the AI.

I will state it bluntly, so we can be sober about this. Until CA decides to expose the AI routines AT LEAST as far as MTW, we will not be able to make EB a truly challenging game for the human player because the AI will not be able to adopt to the new population/economic balance we put in place. We cannot edit unit purchasing routines, build routines, and things that would have allowed us to change the AI to suit our needs. Instead, we get two silly hard-coded parameters, and some limited choices to choose from. Really, the AI is not modable at all, and until it is, a comprehensive change like this (or like the other hosted mods) will in the end fail to give a satisfying game experience like we all envision.

So check out my "Petition for the Exposure of AI Build Routines" in the Dungeon, because I fear that a patch which addresses this is the only way we'll reach our long-term goals.

[PSYCHO V]

OK, Verci and I have 2 units to implement. Everything is done (aside from some text that I'm still working on...and balancing) except region limitation.

Who wants to have a go at making them region specific?

Interested parties, I'll need your email.




We'll also need some play testers for balancing. Samnite has done some preliminary stuff.


Cheers

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

OK, Verci and I have 2 units to implement. Everything is done (aside from some text that I'm still working on...and balancing) except region limitation.

Who wants to have a go at making them region specific?

Interested parties, I'll need your email.

You could contact khelvan too, since he is the one investigating the regional availability for units.

We'll also need some play testers for balancing. Samnite has done some preliminary stuff.

I might be able to test them regarding balancing issues, since I'm doing many of the unit stats alteration for the MOD. You have my mail available.