Self-induced rebellions, why and how?

[bretwalda]

I often read in faction guides that some provinces should be left to rebel. Is the loss from income is worth for training the kings and heirs? How much income is lost? I tend to have money problems quite early... And how do I induce rebellions that can be easily crushed? How to chose the province for that? Isn't there a possibility of losing that province either to the rebels or rather to some other faction? Thanks for the tips!

[MidnitePiper]

"And how do I induce rebellions that can be easily crushed?"

Set the 'training province' to very high taxes and make sure to destroy any loyalty-effecting buildings (I destroy all structures personally). Remove all units from the province. When a rebellion does occur, the force size will be based on the troops you have in the province - none (usually generates one, maybe two units of rebels, generally basic type - spear, archer, urban militia, steppe cavalry, etc). Move in with the general you want to 'train up.' I always send the general in with fewer troops than the rebels - but of a type that can handle the problem. A princes guards can handle 120 archers or 80 steppe cavalry by themselves and get the prince some huge defensive virtues in the process; for spearmen, a prince and a company of horse archers - etc.


"Is the loss from income is worth for training the kings and heirs?"

There is no loss of income. One, you're wringing cash out of the poor peasants of the province with a high tax rate - more importantly, all those captured rebels bring in hundred, sometimes thousands, of florins every turn. If you're having early cash flow problems, this is your answer. I usually keep two or three border provinces in constant rebellion - until they're so cowed they won't rebel any more, and then move on.


"How to chose the province for that?"

Any province will do - the ones with a low income are ideal (I use Arabia and Sinai constantly). Provinces that are hard to control are also a great target - anyone have that list? Offhand I can say Portugal, Lithuania, Kazakhstan...


"Isn't there a possibility of losing that province either to the rebels or rather to some other faction?"

Of course. If you plan your defense well - allocate the right troops to fight the rebels that appear, you shouldn't have much problem keeping those provinces.

On the positive side, using border provinces near an ally may give you a chance to fight some allied battles if they decide to help you out. Letting a province successfully rebel then reconquering it can provide some nice 'attack virtues'. If you play a Muslim nation you can declare jihads against provinces you let loose - bonus troops and influence for your monarch every year. Finally, letting a province rebel can be useful for troop generation if you have some extra cash - I always keep an emissary handy to bribe rebel armies when interesting units or leaders appear.

Edit: Woohoo!!! I have edit! Membership!!
err, I mean, Edit: typo correction

[bretwalda]

Great tips! Thank you - so far I was over stabilizing my empire, most likely. Go, lets do some rebellion!

[SwordsMaster]

Ireland, Portugal, Lithuania are the most rebellious ones IIRC.

[bretwalda]

A question starting from this: after you pacified and built up your provinces - do you leave them without garrison? Of course I mean when there is no risk of foreign invasion...

[SwordsMaster]

Nope, garrison is an important factor when calculating happiness, so 2-3 units are always welcome to show those taxpayers whos the boss

[bretwalda]

Nope, garrison is an important factor when calculating happiness, so 2-3 units are always welcome to show those taxpayers whos the boss

So far I usually left 2 units of peasants (200 men) in every province, and more in Livonia, Lithuania, etc -- I guess I will stick to that in the future, too...

[Procrustes]

Provinces that are hard to control are also a great target - anyone have that list? Offhand I can say Portugal, Lithuania, Kazakhstan...

Hi,

Copied from a previous post:

Each province has a "rebelliousness" factor that can range from 0 to 4. Most provinces have a factor of 0 - these don't:

Ireland 1
Khazar 1
Lithuania 3
Livonia 4
Pomerania 1
Portugal 4
Prussia 2
Scotland 2
Serbia 1

(I lifted this info from the "MTW Region Guide" by FroStone: http://www.mizus.com/Files/k0rgs8gVt/Faqs.shtml)

HTH,

[Procrustes]

I've done this using island provinces before - ussually by accident. Invade an island with a small force and you are pretty much guaranteed a rebellion the next year, and each following year if you don't send a big garrison. Crete works good. (It's kinda fun to see how good you can get your general, and how long you can last. If you like small battles this is the way to go.)

You can help keep the rebellions coming by murdering all your prisoners, or executing all the rebels after each year. Your general will start piling on "unhappiness" vices - up to you whether you want him to do that.

[henoch]

what the *urban militia* is there for. 60men as guarisson, let `em come. probably a bowyer-unit. if you need more (for training) put there a better stack.

the AI dislikes rebellious provinces. but if he comes.. well more training.

three faction (you, him and conan) battles are most fun to me, because noone knows who will fight whom.

[it was fear, that made me leave my shield behind..]

[MidnitePiper]

A question starting from this: after you pacified and built up your provinces - do you leave them without garrison? Of course I mean when there is no risk of foreign invasion...

I personally do not garrison. I leave a governor in most provinces, generally with less than 100 troops (an 80-man cavalry or 20-man guard unit is good). That gives all my governors the chance to deal with the occasional bandit infestation - when something larger than expected appears, there are always two neighboring governors to help out. Every third province I leave a strong garrison to deal with 'surprises' that might arise (the occasional reappearance of an enemy or bandit horde). Of course, using the 'training provinces' most of my local governors rank between 3-5 stars.

Generally, if you've been 'pacifying' slowly, using conquered provinces for training, structures and local garrisons won't be necessary to keep the province over 120% loyalty - they'll sit there quietly despite complete lack of development with taxes maxed out, no garrison, waving to your new monarch after a succession refusing to rebel even when you want them to. Shoulda seen my face when Lithuania, under those very conditions, sat there at 130% loyalty - no possible way left to make one of the most rebellious provinces in the game rebel! A hundred years of butchering their people had finally just knocked all the fight out of them! Had to go find someone new to beat on...

@Procrustes - thanks for that, I'd lost track of that list. Need to copy it down this time.

Edit: Typos

[HicRic]

You should always have a garrison of 100 men minimum. There's a chance that even a 200% loyal province will be hit by bandits with the reason being given "less than 100 men were garrisoned in the province". I advise a signle unit of pesants for those provinces no longer giving you trouble.

[Ironside]

You should always have a garrison of 100 men minimum. There's a chance that even a 200% loyal province will be hit by bandits with the reason being given "less than 100 men were garrisoned in the province". I advise a signle unit of pesants for those provinces no longer giving you trouble.

It isn't.

My favorite garrision is a one man unit.

The bandit rebellion is a rebellion that only shows if there's less than 100 men AND loyalty below 100%.

[bretwalda]

Well, I am practicing the above idea pretty violently in my present campaign. I "conquered" all the neighboring provinces of Kiev to the east (except Khazar), but never built anything just put taxes on very high. There is at least one rebellion in the provinces per year and I can boost the stars of my generals. So far I made 1 3*, 2 2* and 2 1* generals. unfortunatelly I lost a 2* one in an ill fated battle, but I am still good. It is also very good for a practicing ground: learn how to deal with the different unit types. Actually know how good and how fast units are. (I had the very valuable experience that 2 horse archer is not enough to take out a steppe cavalry - because they are not faster than SC)

I also learned, that if you circle the enemy with horse archers usually it does not know what to do and lets itself slaughtered by arrows. I had a battle where there was 1 heavy cavalry with 2 units of archers. And the leader cavalry just stood by and watched until I slaughtered the two units of archers with horse archer charge. I was actually worried that the chasing HA will bump into the heavy cavalry it was so close, really it happened a few meters away from the leaders unit. Of course when the archers were cut down all to the last man, I burried the cavalry under arrows until they run and were cut down as well.

So having these small battles is really good experience and valuable battle practice...

(And as it was pointed out: financially profitable too...)

[henoch]

and keeps the gouverneurs fit.

thanks god i have these eqypts for doing so...

[Silver Rusher]

Bah, Scotland, Portugal and Lithuania are the only truly rebellious provinces!

[Watchman]

They can be a pain at times, too. Once when I played Early Spain and was planning to invade Portugal with a suitably large army to actually hold it the Almohads did me one better and took it. The next turn the place rebelled with a really nasty army including several halberdiers, and this around year 1100...

They became mighty useful once I could scrape together the gold to bribe them, though.

[Tribesman]

Allow Mercia to rebel , its the only way to get Sherwood Foresters and they are absolutely unbelievable as a unit , it only takes a few battes to give them very high valour . It also occasionaly provides Saxon Huscarls which are very handy in early , but of course it is expensive and you can't retrain these units so use them carefully .Plus to be able to bribe them you have to lose control of the province .