ELEPHANTS how they where and should be

[The_Emperor]

Well I did not know whether the Carthaginians used African Plains Elephants or not. I have only found references to the Ptolemaic Dynasty.

But I do know that the North African Elephants were driven to exctinction by the Romans because of their extensive use in the games (to recreate the battles of Hannibal and Scipio).

I do wonder if people would like Carthage having smaller elephants compared to the Parthians and Selucids.

EDIT: Polybius describes the Battle of Raphia quite well in his histories and he explains that the Egyptian elephants were much smaller than the Selucids.

also why delete flaming pigs if are historically cirrect????

The Phyrric campaign happened before the Games timeframe, and that use of Pigs was a one-off I believe because of the situation. (wasn't it a siege?)

They were not used since that campaign in the many battles of the Punic Wars against Carthage.

[PROMETHEUS]

The most frequently told tale concerning pigs as a counter weapon to elephants may be represented by Aelian and Polyaenus: when Antigonas Gonatas was besieging Megara, the Megarians succeeded in routing the besiegers’ elephants by dousing pigs in oil and igniting them and then turning them loose against the elephants.

as u see where used more than once so this makes it a antielephant weapon in list between others may be , but on the list.....

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

I do wonder if people would like Carthage having smaller elephants compared to the Parthians and Selucids.

Carthage might have had stocks of Indian-Asian elephants, although I find it highly improbable. IMO, they should have the smaller Forest elephants.

BTW, IIRC, the Pathians NEVER used elephants of ANY kind.

EDIT: Polybius describes the Battle of Raphia quite well in his histories and he explains that the Egyptian elephants were much smaller than the Selucids.

Preciselly.

The Phyrric campaign happened before the Games timeframe, and that use of Pigs was a one-off I believe because of the situation. (wasn't it a siege?)

They were not used since that campaign in the many battles of the Punic Wars against Carthage.

Once again, agood point.

[PROMETHEUS]

About the quotes of my posts , it just states that my informations are corerect and there was a misunderstanding of what read since the african used was the smaller one....

[PROMETHEUS]

Also found this about an antielephant unit....


Anti-elephant Wagons
300 of these curious devices were, according to Dionysios of Halikarnassos, used by Rome against Pyrrhos' elephants at Asculum. They were four-wheeled ox-drawn wagons (the reconstruction is based on a relief of a solidwheeled Italian farm cart) with wattle screens to protect the crew. They were fitted with upright poles, to which were attached mobile horizontal beams which could be swung in any direction. The beams were fitted with "tridents or swordlike spikes or scythes all of iron", while some had grapnels wrapped in pitch-daubed tow. These would be set on fire and swung at the elephants' trunks and faces. In addition, the wagons were manned by archers, slingers "shooting iron caltrops" and stone-throwers.

There are two accounts of their performance in battle. Dionysios says they initially stopped the elephants' charge, but were then shot at with javelins by the elephant crews and overwhelmed by supporting light infantry, who cut through the wattle screens to get at the crew and hamstrung the oxen; the wagon crews then took flight. Zonaras however says the wagons were never engaged, because the elephants attacked at the other end of the battlefield the wagons no doubt being too clumsy to redeploy. As Asculum was a two-day battle, both stories may be correct, each referring to one day of the battle. The wagons' very existence has been doubted, as the invention of later Roman annalists; but they are described as such a dismal failure that they hardly reflect well on Rome, and serve no Roman propaganda purpose. They probably represent a real and ingenious, though ultimately unsuccessful, attempt to deal with a military problem new to Rome.

[eadingas]

LOL. Let's have it as a monument to Roman ingenuity :) it will be very expensive, and have 0 attack and 0 defence ;)

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

LOL. Let's have it as a monument to Roman ingenuity :) it will be very expensive, and have 0 attack and 0 defence ;)

I shall not even comment...

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

About the quotes of my posts , it just states that my informations are corerect and there was a misunderstanding of what read since the african used was the smaller one....

Ah! OK! I didn't understood that. I tought it was a justification for including African Plains elephants. It's all ok now.

BTW, great work collating all those references...