How to Model New 3D Units

[hoggy]

I believe you have to do it by hand, building a reduced version for each level of detail and then re- exporting with a new name. There are basic poly reduction tools in max but they don't do a clean job which you need to export CAS. It's grunt work and as such most mods don't have the time but it'll mean that people with older pcs will struggle with alot of mods.

[GodsPetMonkey]

another quick question that I'm sure Hoggy can easily answer.How does one create lower CAS files from CAS high ? Chivalry 0.1.6 hastings mod comes with single cas files of knight templar and gothic kinght but not lower models.

Take inspiration from CA.

Good places to recover faces (triangles) from is the head, arms and legs.
In the high detail models, theres alot of exesive detail in the face, mainly the lips and nose, quick easy way to fix this is to vertex weld them together (you will need to do a quick re-mapping of the texture though, buts its pretty simple). Helmets often have 2 or more 'rows' of vertices between the brim and the tip, again, cheat by welding them together, or just delete the faces and recreate them so there is only one row.

The arms and legs are also pretty easy. Try to get both as close as you can to rectangular prism, with the hands/foot meeting at a sharp point. You can use vertex weld again (esp. for the hands/feet), but I find it much easier to delete the faces on one side at a time, and then create a new poly in its place using the respective tool (I normally just run the poly from the shoulder right down to the elbow, then another from the elbow to the point of the hand).

Weapons are another good place to grab some polys, just have 2 planes, facing opposite directions, and UV map them to the weapon in your texture. 4 triangles, you dont get much more minimal then that!

Of course, these tips are for the lowest of detail settings. If you want to work on the others, just find places of unneeded detail that can easily be trimmed down. For those with high end PCs, the loss in detail wont be noticed at range, and those with lesser machines, they will be thankful for being able to play your mod.

Oh yeah, and make your life easy, delete half of your model, do your LOD work, then mirror it, as you will need to reskin the bones anyway, this will nearly half your work!

[Hans Kloss]

Thx guys ..will give a try

[GodsPetMonkey]

Oh yes, I forgot to mention this!

Change the model to an editable poly (rather then mesh) so you take advantage of the 'safe delete' (highlight and press backspace). This will allow you to remove edges and vertices with out deleting the faces they are attatched to (it effectively automatically redraws it). Done in the right way, this can free up loads of faces with out screwing up your texture mapping. Sadly it can't be used everywhere, but it can save alot of time.

There are other useful features in poly mode that are worth checking out, but you can run into issues converting between poly and mesh, so be careful on the more powerful tools.

[Cirith-Ungol]

when I try to imprort a model.... Unit_****_400.cas it says it's of earlier version and when it asks whether I want to continue and I press yes it just shows some undistinguishable lines......
also...

3. Select all the vertices in the model and hit ‘weld selected’ in the options on the right making sure the value is set to 0.00001 (approximately ) This makes the model into one continuous element rather that many different ones.

When I try to do that it says "No vertices within Weld threshhold"


plz help

[Cirith-Ungol]

my bad for double post... couldn't find the edit button.
Ok... I figured that i'd zoom in on the undistinguishable lines and .... the model appeared however... no vertices problem persists

[Legionario]

Some Cas files look like are leftovers from CA,unfinished units,barely human... ...only simple first stage rough bodies....so useless,unless you don't want to finish them by yourself,but there's already a wealth of models to play with in there...

[PotatoChip]

I can't even see any files in my folders? WHY? Help me.

[thelonewolf40]

Hi hoggy and everybody else in this forum. I think that what you guys are doing here is just great. RTW is great. I am fascinated with all this moddeling and changing colours and weapons etc... I downloaded a freetrial version of 3ds max 7. here's the link. http://nct.digitalriver.com/fulfill/...34f25eb037e5-3

My question is... do I really need such an expensive program just to model and modify the units etc.. in RTW? Is there a cutdown vrsion that a person could have just to have some fun with? I am not a student of this art, nor do I know if I can do this, I am just totaly intrigued by it. Could you do the same thing with this version of 3ds max? please check link.

http://estore.discreet.com/dr/v2/ec_...ACHE_ID=174329

Thanks very much to whoever responds.

[Myrddraal]

Hi thelonewolf, and welcome to the .org forums!

Unfortunatly, the CAS extractor was made by a fan not by CA, and it was made as a 3ds max script.

There is a program called GMax. This program is free, but I'm not sure where to download it. With this program, you can open CAS files, but you can't save them. I recommend downloading GMax, use it to edit your models, and then ask someone at these forums if you can send them to them and they will send back the CAS files. Thats your best bet I think.

PotatoChip, what do you mean?

[Sundjata Keita]

Here is a link to gmax

http://www4.discreet.com/gmax/

If anyone wants models converting back into .cas form just pm me

Sundjata Keita

[thelonewolf40]

Thanks a lot guys. I have now gotten myself a copy o 3ds max7. Problem is, I have to learn all the features as it applies to RTW. The tutorials do not address the specifics of .cas files as they pertain to the game. I understand the concept of the 3d modelling, but not the way I have read here on the forum. Is the 3d modelling in the tutorials, more, or less difficult than the RTW type of moddeling? what am I missing? how do I apply a skin? a texture? texture colour etc... when I import a .cas file, all I get is a skeleton and no matter what I do I can't apply a skin. Do I need to draw a skin over the bones, as in the other form of moddeling? what does UVW stand for? (in layman terms). Is there a glossary of terms I can get? as it applies to the modelling in RTW? I have so many questions, but life is too short.

Thanks in advance guys.

[Sundjata Keita]

Modelling for RTW is on the whole easier than just modelling anything because it sticks to basics. When you import the cas it should have a skin but if not it may be an older version of the file. If you are talking about the actual texture on the skin then at first you will need to force the texture path and pick the folder in the pack files with all the textures.

UVW is the map that shows the computer where to put the texture on the model. You can edit it by clicking on the UVW modifier in the dropdown list and then clicking "edit"

Remember learning how to use MAX isn't easy and will take a while to learn just the basics. As for a glossary of terms you could use the help in max to search for anything you don't understand although from experience if you are new to max it may just confuse you more

Hope that helps,

Sundjata Keita

[thelonewolf40]

Thanks a lot Sundjata, Is there a place, like maybe Activision where one can download the newer files?

Thanks.

[Sundjata Keita]

The newer files are just the ones the game uses, if you look at all the models test quite a few and see if the problem persists. Often a message will appear on the cas importer saying that it is an older version. Can you post a screenshot of the problem and then I can see what you mean.

Regards,

Sundjata Keita

[thelonewolf40]

Thanks again Sundjata, I have gone into the file that the game uses and printed out a portion of the file to make sure I am importing the right one. I am trying to get this specific one that the game uses. (data/models_unit/unit_praetorian_high.cas,15) the next three in line on the game file, end with: low.cas,30, 40, and max. but keep getting the same error message. MaxScript Rollout Handler Exception
Type error: if-test requires BooleanClass, got: undefined

I tried to insert a screenshot, but don't seem to be able to get that to work either.

[Sundjata Keita]

Do other units' models import properly? If so then the one you are importing is an older filetype and nothing can be done. If the problem applies to all the units' models then you may have an outdated cas importer and I suggest updating to the latest one (I think it is v6)

Regards,

Sundjata Keita

PS if you want to post a screenshot then use a hosting site like www.imageshack.us

[thelonewolf40]

Hey! Sundjata, and everybody else. I have everything working just fine. I reinstalled the .cas extracter and all's well. I, on the other hand am more, and more baffled. I don't get the RTW unit texture maps, they are all scrambled in the tga and I don't understand how these are this way while other 3d maps I've seen are just an opened-up textured skin. If all I wanted to do at this time was to just change some colours, would I have to paint over the old ones, or do I change the RGB values? I tried once painting over the old colour and the file got very large and would not run in the game, what Layer would I paint on? I read a photoshop tutorial in these forums but don't remember where. does anyone know the thread?

I have managed at least one modd. Using Caligula, I modified the Julii Triarii just giving them the ability to form a Phalanx and instantly in the game they had long pikes and were practically an inpenetrable wall I noticed that they still would use their long pikes like a spear when ordered to attack and were a lot more effective than the Greek Hoplites.

Thanks Guys

[thelonewolf40]

OOPS!!!!! I almost forgot. On the Campaign map, how do I find the exact coords.? how far to the right does it go in numbers? if bottom left corner is 0,0 , what number is the upper right corner? what is the scale? I read that Photoshop will give you the coords. but that they start from the left upper corner instead of the bottom left. I this true? I want to add gold and silver mines to a province but need to know where to put it.

Many thanks.

[Sundjata Keita]

Sounds like you have a lot of questions If you want to change the colour of a unit in photoshop then you must select all the parts of the texture of that colour and then press ctrl u to bring up the simple colour changer, play around with the sliders until you get the colour you want. The filesize should be no bigger.

You will notice that many of the UV maps (the things that decide where the textures go in relation to the model) are different and this is purely because the layout used was easier for that particular model. All the UV maps are cylindrical though, which means that for the arm texture, that flat bit of arm has to wrap itself right round the arm on the model. Same applys for all the other bits of the model.

You are right in thinking that the game takes it from the bottom left and photoshop from the top left. It is quite easy to fix though

1. First click on the info box in the top left of the screen (next to the navigator) so you can see co-ordinates

2. Then use the square selection tool to select all of the campaign map and note down the width and hieght (I can't remember what they are)

3. Then deselect the area and put you mouse on the bit where you want the goldmine

4. Look at the co-ordinates shown in the info box, to work out the co-ordinates in game, the x value will be the same and the y value will be the total height minus the y value seen.

Hope this all helps,

Sundjata Keita

[Kääpäkorven Konsuli]

Wohoo, I must tell somebody about my success, I am so excited about this.


I downloaded 3ds max trial yesterday and today I was abel to but legionnaire helmet to gallic swordman. Of course helmet got hair texture, but that doesn't matter right now. Tomorrow I will try to get right texture for helmet and maybe do more editing.

Thank you Hoggy, your tutorials have been more than helpful.

This is almost funner than playing the game.

[Sundjata Keita]

Congratulations Looks like we have a new modeller on the scene, want to join my mod (that's what everyone will be saying soon)

PS I haven't actually played the game in months, that's what modding does to you

[dragases80]

Ok ...

thank to you all

I have just modified my first model... but there is a problem


how can i map this model ?

Is possible to make a little tutorial for basics uvmapping ???


Bye

[Moooul]

hi there,

nice tutorial indeed. it's certainly the most detailed concerning skinning but anyway i don't get it properly. i changed some heads/plumes according to some great tutorial . retextured them but i cant get the vertices weighted correctly (at least i think so). trying to save my model as .cas i get some notification saying "mesh body_400 must have the skin modifier at the top of the stack. if it is static it must have a bone as its parent" what did i do wrong? could someone plz publish a tutorial which copes with skinning step by step? i already made some great modifications and it would be quiet sad if i couldn't complete them

[Moooul]

heres an image of my problem including my diagram view

plz help

[hoggy]

All the objects in your scene need to be either skinned to the bones or linked to the bones. So for example in your example body_400 might be skinned and weighted as by the tutorial but body_01 and shoulder pads could be linked to the torso bone. You link objects using the button to the right of the black arrow in the yellow button in your screen shot. Click that then drag the shoulder pads onto the torso bone. To avoid all these problems though make your 3 objects 1 big object and just skin that.

[JHW]

ok I downloaded that link to the xpac folder but there didnt seem to be any script files in there? Was this the wrong file? If so where do i get the other one?

[Moooul]

jhw that is a max-script... it only work if u copy it into ur 3d studio max /script folder and perform it from the toolbar on the right.


hoggy, i merged my objekts all to the "scene root" so i got one objekt. skinned all vertices to bone_abs (rigid and 1,0) and tada.... no error message. but, when i tested my new .cas file (it was only 6 Kb) i had just bones and weapon/shield(without any texture). thats odd ...

i skinned doing the following:
added bone_* to envelope
selected bone_abs
selected all vertices
checked rigid and weighted them with 1,0
so whats wrong with that?

[hoggy]

I think the scene root is a null? I don't think it should be part of the object. If you collapse the stack then just merge the geometry only (but not the weapon) and then skin it all it should work. You have to link the weapon to the hand bone. Did you mean it comes out ok in game but the texture doesn't show or that all you see in game is the floating weapon?

[Moooul]

heres what i got it seems to me all right but it does not export properly anyway..