Split up HRE or not?

[Silver Rusher]

I come here now to discuss the issue of whether or not to split the Holy Roman Empire into rebels with a few provinces loyal to the HRE, or to let the HRE keep all the Holy Roman Empire with decent loyalty, or finally, whether to just have HRE with all HRE provinces as well as very, very bad loyalty in many places. I am sliding towards option 1, as I think that is the most realistic (it would just be wierd if you have multiple rebellions across your empire in the first turn)

[zelda12]

I think that the HRE should only have their Southern provinces. The northen ones should be rebel or a new nonplayable faction. Ergo the Healeanistic League or whatever its called. The league of North German trading cities that dominated North sea and Baltic trade for a long time. They should also be highly restive when conquered because of the encroachment of Protestantism. So for every fifty years you get a lower loyalty if those provinces are conquered because there are more and more Protestants living there.

[massamuusi]

Hanseatic league.

Well, they were still a part of the empire, except that the emperor didn't really have much control at all at many places.
They should have special relations with the emperor, imo, a little bit like how the rome was divided to 4 factions, except that the emperor should be playable in this case, and he doesn't need to give missions, or were you planning to use the senate faction as the pope?
It would imo be nice to have a less than senate faction as the emperor faction for germans. He still had the right to march on his vassals grounds, but the vassals could turn against him if they thought they wanted to do it and could get away with it.

When playing as HRE, you would have them as your vassals, like the other roman factions, but you would have to conquer them if you wanted to have them under direct control.
Is there any way you can modify their AI so that they would be more prone to breaking alliance with HRE? I guess it was usually pretty one sided business, emperor would rarely attack the vassals unless they gave a good reason to do so, after all, it meant storming their castles.

What were the periods when it was broken? Luthers appearance sure made the vassals far more independent.

I'm sorry, I don't remember the stuff all that well know.

[Stefan the Berserker]

Well, through I'm not part of your crew I shouldn't interfear in this. But as a german its a possible must...

After my Opinion there should better be multiple german factions, these are:

House Habsburg (ex/ Julier) : Austria - Boehmia - Hungary

House Hohenzollern (ex/ Scipio): Brandenburg - Prussia

House Brunswick-Luneburg (ex/ Bruti): Lesser Saxony (Doucy of Hannover)

Reichstag (ex/ SPQR / nonplayable): ?

The rest of Germany is made rebel.

If the romans are converted to the germans you do have at first a raw political Union between them, which will collapse fast enough if you give the factions high popularity within the people...

Also for the dissolution of the HRE these Factions are senseful: Habsburg -> Austria-Hungary in the late term, Hohenzollern -> Prussia in the late term, Brunswick-Luneburg -> Hannover-Britain in the late term. The Reichstag (imperial Council) was the headorganisation of HRE, as it was a Confederation. Originally the Reichstag was held where the Emperor decided to do it, however it would require a fixed position...

[massamuusi]

Thanks! As far as I know, anyone is free to give their input for the mod.

[Silver Rusher]

Sorry, the Pope is the 'Senate' and the three military orders (of knights) are their pawns.

The orders are- Knights Hospitaller/St. John, Teutonic Knights (I'm gonna have to stretch history a bit here, as they were eliminated in 1410 after the battle of Tannenburg) and finally the Knights of the Dragon.

[massamuusi]

Hmm... can you copy to have another 'senate' faction, but perhaps with less rights, use some of the special code that senate has, but perhaps not all of it or something?
Just a thought from a total layman.

[Silver Rusher]

Well no, there has to be only one Senate (sounds like a line from Star Wars), no more, no less. I think it's annoying too, and if it were up to me there wouldn't be a senate at all, or if it was possible the papacy would rule over all catholic factions.

[Uesugi Kenshin]

I know nothing about this but just an idea, is there a way that you can up the likelihood of a faction taking offers from a certain faction, because if you do decide to keep it split up that would be one way to have the HRE give orders, though probably one of the worst.

[Ellesthyan]

It's easier just to have every official part of the HRE be in a military access alliance with the Imperial faction (I assume Habsburg?). The AI will attack anyone when they feel like it, but it does take a little longer for any wars to erupt between the allied factions, as they'll pay a huge populairity hit what the AI will try to avoid.

[Meneldil]

The Teutonic Knights were not eliminated at any time. The order is still existing nowadays.

[eadingas]

And their power was not diminished in 1410. It was broken in 1466 after 13-years War with Poland, and they were completely removed as a power and secularized in 1525, after Albrecht Hohenzollern paid tribute to polish king.
You should know this things -before- you start making a historical mod ;)