Did Hollywood get Alexander right?

[Navaros]

any movie that promotes sodomy is not a movie i'll see. i do not support such things as i believe them to be immoral, depraved and evil

so no in my view Hollywood did not get Alexander right because there is nothing "right" about a male committing sodomy on another male

[Dhepee]

any movie that promotes sodomy is not a movie i'll see. i do not support such things as i believe them to be immoral, depraved and evil

so no in my view Hollywood did not get Alexander right because there is nothing "right" about a male committing sodomy on another male

Interesting. So you would rather see a movie that was inaccurate than see something that you construe as immoral.

[Goofball]

so no in my view Hollywood did not get Alexander right because there is nothing "right" about a male committing sodomy on another male

What if they stuck strictly to fellatio?

[BDC]

What if they stuck strictly to fellatio?

That's acceptable presumeably.

I don't see how you can really compare this to modern values.

This is all long before the tyranny of the giant, unaccepting and untolerant monotheisic religions, so morals were a lot more diverse and relaxed I imagine.

[Navaros]

Interesting. So you would rather see a movie that was inaccurate than see something that you construe as immoral.

if that movie is going to portray one who does such vile evil acts as a "Hero" - which this Stone movie does - then yes, better to be inaccurate rather than to promote evildoing by sending the sick message "doing that is ok, even Heros do it!"

if however, an Alexander movie came out that portrays Alexander as an evil man who lived a shameful, disgraceful, immoral life - then "accuracy" may be ok in that case

[Goofball]

if that movie is going to portray one who does such vile evil acts as a "Hero" - which this Stone movie does - then yes, better to be inaccurate rather than to promote evildoing by sending the sick message "doing that is ok, even Heros do it!"

if however, an Alexander movie came out that portrays Alexander as an evil man who lived a shameful, disgraceful, immoral life - then "accuracy" may be ok in that case

Interesting. So, by your line of reasoning, any "hero" who has ever done anything immoral (by your definition of immoral, at least) is disgusting and shameful and is not really a hero at all? In other words, one "wrong" cancels out a thousand "rights?"

Man, I would hate to be one of your children. Constantly living in fear of doing something Dad found to be offensive and being eternally condemned because of it would be more than I could handle...

[Devastatin Dave]

*runs thru room singing "It's Raining Men" and pinches DevDave's bum on the way by*

*after being pinched, puts on a pair of chaps and begins singing "YMCA"*

[Xiahou]

Well, I had this movie figured to be total crap before I heard this latest bit of info, and my opinion hasnt been changed by it.

Honestly, Farrell is such a horrible actor, Jolie isnt much better, and Stone.... is Stone.

[DemonArchangel]

Sodomy or not, Alexander was a freakin' brilliant general. But they should have gotten a midget to play him as Alexander was a very, very short person.

[Steppe Merc]

Um DA, I don't think a midget could ride a horse too well...

any movie that promotes sodomy is not a movie i'll see. i do not support such things as i believe them to be immoral, depraved and evil

so no in my view Hollywood did not get Alexander right because there is nothing "right" about a male committing sodomy on another male

I see... well for once I think PJ had a argument that I agree with... I fail to see how accuratly showing that Alexander was bisexual (he liked women a lot too) would detract from his brillance. It will (should) also show that he was really into drunken orgies, and killing lots of people. Does him having a male lover or two make him any worse than killing people and being a real boozer made him? Alexander was Alexander, and part of who he was was that in addition to being a military genius he was also sometimes insane, drunk, and very horny for both sexes. Otherwise, he would be someone else, not Alexander. He wasn't evil, and he wasn't good. He was.

[ah_dut]

He was a genius and most true geniuses are deranged and more than slightly mad

[Aurelian]

And so the fun begins...

New 'Alexander' Movie Under Fire for Sexual Portrait

20 minutes ago Entertainment - Reuters

By Arthur Spiegelman

LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - Oliver Stone's new film about Alexander the Great depicts the king as bisexual, fueling outrage from Greeks and prompting Hollywood to ask if a world conqueror with dyed blond hair and waxed legs will be able to attract box office hordes.

One newspaper calls it a case of "Queer Eye for the Macedonian Guy." Others have speculated that Stone, always a controversial filmmaker, is taking a big risk with a $160 million epic by including scenes of passionate embrace between Alexander and his best friend Hephaestion.

The Gay and Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation (news - web sites) (GLAAD) says the film breaks new ground for a big budget epic because it shows Hephaestion "as the true love of Alexander's life."

A line from the film says: "Alexander was defeated only once -- by Hephaestion's thighs."

Last summer's blockbuster film "Troy," which could have portrayed Achilles and Patroclus as lovers, brushed aside any homoerotic elements to concentrate on Achilles desire for a Trojan princess.

Everyone associated with "Alexander," from Stone to star Colin Farrell, insist the film, which opens on Wednesday, is historically accurate and reflects the pagan mores of around 330 BC when the Macedonian king captured the world's mightiest empire, Persia, and pressed on to the ends of the Earth.

Farrell, in a recent interview with Reuters, said he had no problem with the role because "Oliver made the film as historically accurate as possible and ambivalent sexuality was something of the times and part of the character."

Stone said he kept the movie accurate and had an historian on the set. He added there was no question that Alexander had "a polymorphous sensuality and was an explorer in the deepest sense of the world."

British scholar Robin Lane (news) Fox, author of a biography of Alexander and historical advisor to the film, said homosexuality and bisexuality were not "issues in ancient times" and that Alexander had extensive relations with women.

But a group of angry Greek lawyers say Stone and the film's distributor Warner Bros., a unit of Time Warner Inc. , should be sued for twisting history. The lawyers said they have asked Stone and Warner Bros. to include a reference in the title credits saying the film is fictional. Spokesmen for Warner Bros. and Stone did not have any immediate comment.

"We are not saying that we are against gays, but we are saying that the production company should make it clear to the audience that this film is pure fiction and not a true depiction of the life of Alexander," Yannis Varnakos, who is spearheading the legal campaign, told Reuters in Athens.

Two years ago, hundreds of Greeks from Alexander's home turf Macedonia, stormed an archeological symposium after one speaker presented a paper on the homosexuality of Alexander.

Stone's film, which he had been trying to get on the screen for 15 years, was filmed mainly in Morocco and Thailand. The Athens News Agency said no scenes were shot in Greece because of government opposition to Stone's portrayal of the Greek hero.

Asked if he toned down scenes, Stone maintained he shot the film the way he wanted. The only overtly sexual scene in the movie is a wedding night love scene between Alexander and his wife Roxanne that starts with her putting a knife to his throat after she catches him accepting a ring from Hephaestion, who is played by Jared Leto wearing eyeliner.

[Aurelian]

A line from the film says: "Alexander was defeated only once -- by Hephaestion's thighs."

I believe that in ancient Greece, men/boys would usually engage in... how shall we say this... hot thigh sex, rather than the form of sodomy that we normally think about. Pictures on urns seem to indicate that this was the more common practice.

Sodomy or not, Alexander was a freakin' brilliant general. But they should have gotten a midget to play him as Alexander was a very, very short person.

I just did a Google search on "Colin Farrell height" to see how tall he is and there were different measurements, including 5'9, 5'10, 5'11, and 6'0. I was under the impression that he was short, so I'd guess that he's probably on the low end of that scale. Still, that's average adult human male size.

Somewhere above, people mentioned Alexander and Helen's hair color. I think Helen was actually supposed to be blond. Alexander too, though probably not the bleach blond color Farrell seems to be sporting.

As for Alexander's heroism and its portrayal by Stone... I think he'll include all of Alexander's heroic and psychotic tendencies, because it'll make for a more interesting story. That's probably one of the reasons he chose Colin Farrell for the role. Farrell always comes across as edgy and twisted (so does Jolie for that matter).

[Slyspy]

I like the fact that those Greeks are getting wound up by the film. OMG it shows a Macedonian king from ancient times being bisexual. Presumably they fear that viewers will think all Greek men are homosexuals and therefore bring into question their masculinity. Laughable really. A certain poster here would fit right in!

PS
For those obsessed with sodomy I would like to point out that this act is not a necessary feature of a homosexual relationship. In fact, in the time of Alexander, anal intercourse was frowned upon and it is likely that most relationships did not involve sodomy. There are examples IIRC of individuals who did engage in sodomy being looked down upon by the rest of society. Also to those who believe that the era was a time of few strictures regarding morality, including attitudes to sex, I would suggest that the ancients merely had a different morality.

[Spino]

I don't like most of Stone's movies and I think his recent projects have been terrible. Furthermore the pre-release buzz is that this Alexander biopic is a bit of a mess. However the production values look amazing and there have been precious few pictures made about this period in ancient Greece's history. Therefore I am compelled to shell out my hard earned cash and see this one on the big screen. It's Alexander the freakin' Great for Pete's sake!

[bmolsson]

This movies is just like homosexuality. If it's not your gig, don't watch it. I am sure that there is a bible reading session you can participate at instead......

[hellenes]

first of all :

ALEXANDER WAS NOT GAY/BISEXUAL!!!

Second i challenge ANYONE to give a ACCURATE SOURCE
PROVING ALEXANDERS HOMOSEXUALITY/BISEXUALITY!!!

Dont judge others based upon yourselves...

Hellenes

[DemonArchangel]

Hellenes, we don't have to
it's hollywood.

[Navaros]

This movies is just like homosexuality. If it's not your gig, don't watch it. I am sure that there is a bible reading session you can participate at instead......

two things: Bible is spelled with a capital "B".

i won't watch Alexander and i will also caution everyone i know not to watch it to because it promotes immorality and evildoing. i know many others will feel the same way. hopefully enough so that this movie tanks.

[DemonArchangel]

Navaros, why not just download alexander instead? you're still screwing mr. stone out of his money and you get to enjoy a free movie as well.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

RPT-Outraged Greeks say Alexander was not bisexual

ATHENS, Nov 19 (Reuters) - A group of Greek lawyers are threatening to sue Warner Bros film studios and Oliver Stone, director of the widely anticipated film "Alexander," for suggesting Alexander the Great was bisexual.

The lawyers have already sent an extrajudicial note to the studio and director demanding they include a reference in the title credits saying his movie is a fictional tale and not based on official documents of the life of the Macedonian ruler.

"We are not saying that we are against gays but we are saying that the production company should make it clear to the audience that this film is pure fiction and not a true depiction of the life of Alexander," Yannis Varnakos, who spearheads the campaign by 25 lawyers, told Reuters on Friday.

Stone was quoted on the MSNBC.com Web Site as telling the upcoming edition of Playboy magazine that the film's depiction of Alexander could offend some.

"We go into his bisexuality. It may offend some people, but sexuality in those days was a different thing," he was quoted as saying.

While the film starring Colin Farrell and Angelina Jolie will be released on Nov. 24, Varnakos said he has already gathered enough information regarding the content of the movie to suggest there are "inappropriate references."

"We have not seen the film but from the information we have already there are references to his alleged homosexuality, a fact that is in no historical document or archive on Alexander," he said. "Either they make it clear that this is a work of fiction or we will take the case further."

This is not the first time Greeks have been angered by suggestions Alexander was homosexual and had affairs with young men.

Two years ago hundreds of northern Greeks from the province of Macedonia, where he was born, stormed an archaeological symposium after one speaker presented a paper on the homosexuality of Alexander. Police were called in to evacuate the participants.

One of the greatest military leaders of all time, Alexander, who was never defeated in battle, conquered about 90 percent of the then-known world before his mysterious death at the age of 32, building an empire that stretched from the Mediterranean to Afghanistan.

Varnakaos said as Stone has the right to freely express himself, the audience should have the right to know.

"We cannot come out and say that (former U.S.) President John F. Kennedy was a shooting guard for the Los Angeles Lakers basketball team and so Warner cannot come out and say Alexander was gay," Varnakos said.

So can anyone prove Alexander was bi sexual or not?

[Lazul]

Gha!, I say Gha!

The movie does not promote evildoing, not more then any other war-movies.

Well I like war on the screen and hate it in real life... same goes for violence... and I get really offended when people talk down on homosexuallity, I have several homosexual friends and they are some of the greatest human beings I have ever met.

And its a proven fact that greeks had alot of gay sex, but so what? I just fail to see problem here!?!? What ever goes on in bedroom is NOT and NEVER will be anyone ellses problem!!

[Gawain of Orkeny]

What ever goes on in bedroom is NOT and NEVER will be anyone ellses problem!!

Seems these Greek lawyers disagree with you as it does when you put it on the big screen and claim it as fact .

[monkian]

I find it odd that Navaros feels Alexancer was evil because of his sexual practices rather than the amount of bloodshed and violence he caused.


Its funny how Americans have a problem with sex and not with violence. I think its probably the opposite in Europe.

Then again Muslims are the same as Americans - maybe its a Muslim/Christian thing.

[hellenes]

And its a proven fact that greeks had alot of gay sex, but so what? I just fail to see problem here!?!? What ever goes on in bedroom is NOT and NEVER will be anyone ellses problem!!

WHAT ARE YOUR SOURCES?

EVIDENCE?

DOCUMENTED REFERENCES?

Ill tell you what NOTHING!!!

Just the usual habit of judging others based upon yourself....

Hellenes

[monkian]

I dunno. Hellenes is quite a 'fruity' sounding name...

[hellenes]

I dunno. Hellenes is quite a 'fruity' sounding name...

Its not a name its a nationality...
And if you want an opinion just think what the world thinks about the americans after the elections

Hellenes

[monkian]

Meh, there was more man-on-man action in ancient Greece than in Big Gay Al's bedroom.

[DemonArchangel]

http://www.pothos.org/alexander.asp?paraID=42

hmm...

[hellenes]

http://www.pothos.org/alexander.asp?paraID=42

hmm...

there is no indisputable evidence for such an attachment between Alexander and Hephaistion
three Greek historians (Arrian, Diodorus and Plutarch) never term him erastes or eromenos, only philos or malista timomenos. Alexander himself calls him philalexandros (friend of Alexander). Curtius and Justin use only amicus, never amans. The only implication of a sexual relationship or use of the term eromenos for Hephaistion occurs in late sources or those of dubious authorship. [Ael. VH 12.7, Epic. Dis. 2.12.17-18, Diog. Epistles 24, and Luc. Dial. Dead 397.]

HMMMMM

Hellenes