Citadel:Total War units

[Yggdrasill]

Owww no Russians...

Do you want me to find stuf on Russians?

The Russians are in the works!

If you want, we can work together. In fact I've been looking for a Russian bloke to help me out. I'll contact you by pm and give you what I have so far, and would welcome your comments ideas and such... Please send any comments via e-mail as my inbox is rather full

here's my mail

zlatko.vlasic2@zg.htnet.hr

[Yggdrasill]

Somebody asked for Scots? Well here you go!


Scotland

1. Guard unit – for early period, lance armed cavalry, with lighter armour than the usual Western cavalry (brigandines and mail, plate protection only for the legs and arms), for later period, men-at-arms in three-quarters armour (like german reiters)
2. Border Reivers, two types, one with a crossbow, the other with a pistol, a possible third one with a spear
3. Mounted crossbowmen *

1. Schiltrons
2. Archers *
3. Crossbowmen, Arbalesters *
4. Arquebusiers *
5. Dismounted nobles
6. Highlanders
7. Highlander Archers
8. Highland Claymores
9. Lochaber Highlander
10. Foot Lowne
11. Lowland Pikes
12. Lowlanders
13. Town Militia *


Edit: I made some changes later. I will also edit the original post so that we keep all unit lists in one place.

[Zharakov]

@ Yggdrasill

Ok here is the best list of units for Russia I could find. Tell me how it is.


Infantry:

1. Russ Spearmen
2. Russ Swordsmen
3. Russ Line Spearmen
4. Russ Early Guard
5. Russ Gunmen
6. Russ Marksmen
7. Russ Late Guard

Cavelry

1. Druzhina
2. Russ Hussar
3. Russ Lancer
4. Russ Carbiner
5. Cossak
6. Cossak Carbiner


What do you think. Which would you keep and give away.

[Uesugi Kenshin]

Thanks for the Scottish units!

[cegorach]

For the Russian units check the 'Units' thread in the P&M TW sub-forum. I can give you more info if you need it.

[Salazar]

On Request of Yggdrasil, i have done the following German translation for Unit names.

1. Knights *

Ritter

2. Gothic Man-at-arms *

Gotische Soldaten

3. Frei Ritter

Freie Ritter/Freiritter

4. Maximilian Man-at-arms – light and heavy version (with and without the horse bard)

Maximilianische Soldaten (???)

5. Reiter

Reiter

6. Schwarze Reiter – possible mercenary unit

Schwarze Reiter

7. Mounted sergeants *

Sergeanten zu Pferd

8. Mounted crossbowman, arquebusiers *

Armbrustschützen/Arkebusiere zu Pferd

1. Crossbowman, Arbalesters *

Armbrustschützen, Arbalestenschützen

2. Archer *

Bogenschütze

3. Swiss, Landsknechts – mercenary units

Could you give detail over what Landsknecht and swiss units you are inclunding so i can translate them as well?

4. Town militia *

Stadtmiliz

5. Burghers

Bürger

6. Burghers pikemen (piekeniers)

Bürgerpikeniere

7. Hand gunners *

Pistolenschützen (???)

8. Arquebusiers, Musketeers *

Arkebusiere, Musketiere

9. Foot sergeants *

Sergeanten zu Fuß

10. Kaiserlicher Fussknechts – Piekeniers, Musketiers, Harquebuchsen,

Kaiserliche Fussknechte - Pikeniere, Musketiere, Arkebusenschützen

11. Rondartschiere

Rondartschiere

[Uesugi Kenshin]

Looks good. I am not sure if we are going to include it though. I think it would be a great idea, but we would have to have some way to make people who do not know German able to understand what the units are. I think we could do this in the unit descriptions, but I would like to hear other people's opinions and ideas.

[Ignoramus]

Have the name in German, and in the unit descriptions put it in English within parentheses.

[Narayanese]

I think a translation in the unit description is enough. I didn't have any trouble learning what kind of unit Velites is for example.

I'm not german, but this page translates handgun to "faustrohr" or "faustbüchse".

[Uesugi Kenshin]

Looks like we are on the same page about this. Sounds good.

[Uesugi Kenshin]

All the polished unit lists I could find, here for easy access and so we can know which factions need units.

On Request of Yggdrasil, i have done the following German translation for Unit names.

1. Knights *

Ritter

2. Gothic Man-at-arms *

Gotische Soldaten

3. Frei Ritter

Freie Ritter/Freiritter

4. Maximilian Man-at-arms – light and heavy version (with and without the horse bard)

Maximilianische Soldaten (???)

5. Reiter

Reiter

6. Schwarze Reiter – possible mercenary unit

Schwarze Reiter

7. Mounted sergeants *

Sergeanten zu Pferd

8. Mounted crossbowman, arquebusiers *

Armbrustschützen/Arkebusiere zu Pferd

1. Crossbowman, Arbalesters *

Armbrustschützen, Arbalestenschützen

2. Archer *

Bogenschütze

3. Swiss, Landsknechts – mercenary units

Could you give detail over what Landsknecht and swiss units you are inclunding so i can translate them as well?

4. Town militia *

Stadtmiliz

5. Burghers

Bürger

6. Burghers pikemen (piekeniers)

Bürgerpikeniere

7. Hand gunners *

Pistolenschützen (???)

8. Arquebusiers, Musketeers *

Arkebusiere, Musketiere

9. Foot sergeants *

Sergeanten zu Fuß

10. Kaiserlicher Fussknechts – Piekeniers, Musketiers, Harquebuchsen,

Kaiserliche Fussknechte - Pikeniere, Musketiere, Arkebusenschützen

11. Rondartschiere

Rondartschiere

Ok here is the best list of units for Russia I could find. Tell me how it is.


Infantry:

1. Russ Spearmen
2. Russ Swordsmen
3. Russ Line Spearmen
4. Russ Early Guard
5. Russ Gunmen
6. Russ Marksmen
7. Russ Late Guard

Cavelry

1. Druzhina
2. Russ Hussar
3. Russ Lancer
4. Russ Carbiner
5. Cossak
6. Cossak Carbiner


Scotland

1. Guard unit – for early period, lance armed cavalry, with lighter armour than the usual Western cavalry (brigandines and mail, plate protection only for the legs and arms), for later period, men-at-arms in three-quarters armour (like german reiters)
2. Border Reivers, two types, one with a crossbow, the other with a pistol, a possible third one with a spear
3. Mounted crossbowmen *

1. Schiltrons
2. Archers *
3. Crossbowmen, Arbalesters *
4. Arquebusiers *
5. Dismounted nobles
6. Highlanders
7. Highlander Archers
8. Highland Claymores
9. Lochaber Highlander
10. Foot Lowne
11. Lowland Pikes
12. Lowlanders
13. Town Militia *


* units are generic, available for several faction


Ottomans:

1. Kapikullu Sipahi - or Sipahi of the Porte
2. Timarli Sipahi -
3. Gebelis
4. Akinji -
6. Voyniq cavalry
7.Some merc cav – Turcoman horse archer, Tatar horse archer, Arab cavalry, Wallachian cavalry
8. Late Sipahy


1. Azap
2. Yaya
3. Voyniqs
4. Janissary bowmen (Nefer J. Archer,
5. Armoured J. ( Zirhli Nefer J)
6. Ottoman milita
7. Serdengecti, literally head riskers
8. Dervish bektashi
9. Azap Tufekci – azap with arquebus
10. Jannisary Tufekci

Instead of Janissary we should use the authentic Turkish title – Yeniceri (yeni – new, ceri – army)


Mamluks:

1. Khassaki Mamluks
2. Qaranis Mamluks
3. Amir's Mamluk
4. Halqa Light cavalry
5. Merc cavalry - Arab cavalry (the same as for the Ottoman Turks), Turcoman horse archers


1. Halqa militia
2. Ashir infantry
3. Naffatin (or naphta throwers or whatever you choose to call them) –
4. North African marine (or Maghribi marine)
5. African handgunner
6. Town guard
7. Halqa militia - with arquebuses for 16th century


Moors:

1. Ma'lughun Ghulam guard
2. Moorish cavalry
3. Jinettes
4. Saharan cavalry
5. Maybe Mounted crossbowmen
6. Renegados (christian converts)


Infantry:
1. Crossbow milita
2. Urban milita
3. Maghribi marine
4. N. African volunteer (Ghazi)
5. Some kind of firearm unit, perhaps similar to Mamluks' NorthAfrican Gunner.
6. In mid to late 16th century, instead of crossbows, militia units would be using firearms as well. So an additional Arquebus militia unit in 16th century.
7. Archers


Venice

1. Mounted crossbowmen *
2. Italian light cavalry – mounted arquebusiers but very effective
3. Stradioti light cav – merc unit
4. Utili Lanze Spezzate (lighter version, no horse armour)
5. Elmetti Lanze Spezzate (man-at-arms with horse bard)
6. Cavalleria Leggeria - mid 16th century Venetian attempt at a demi-lancer type cost-effective cavalry
7. Mounted sergeants *
8. Capeletti light cavalry


1. Provisionati (professional hired troops on a permanent basis): Lanceri (spearman), Balestrieri (crossbowman), Arceri (archers), Picchieri (pikeman), Rotularii (light sword-and-buckler infantry), schiopettieri (hand-gunners), Arbalesters
2. Ordinanze Balestrieri – militia crossbowman (the unit GPM already made)
3. Ordinanze Lanceri - former Urban militia
4. Scappoli, Marine crossbowman, Marine arquebusier –three different naval units
5. Musketeers *
6. Italian arquebusiers
7. Venetian infantry
8. Italian heavy infantry - armed with a staff weapon
9. Cretan archers - they were still around believe it or not
10. Ordinanze Picchieri (Militia Pikes) - a mid 16th century attempt at modern infantry unit, not as effective as foreign types
11. Cernide – Dalmatian infantry, sword and musket armed
12. Ordinanze arquebusiers – militia arquebusiers
13. Town militia *

colours are red and white stripes, and the Lion of St. Mark

Milan:

1. Condottieri Utili Man-at-arms – merc unit available to other factions also
2. Condotierri Elmetti Man-at-arms – see above
3. Household cavalry (Famiglia) – guard unit
4. Merc units – stradioti,
5. Mtd crossbowman *
6. Mtd sergeants *
7. Italian light cavalry
8. Lanze Spezzate – Utili, Elmetti

1. Provisionati –see above
2. Ordinanze Lanzeri
3. Italian arquebuisiers,
4. Musketeers *
5. Town militia *
6. Italian heavy infantry
7. Genoese crossbowman – mercenary unit


Same for Pope plus Swiss Guard unit



England

1. Royal Guard (early bodyguard unit)
2. Gentleman Pensioners (late guard) or Household Cavalry
3. Man-at-arms
4. Mounted sergeant *
5.Demi-lancer, two types, one with a lance, the other with a pistol
6. Border Reiver, also two types, one with a crossbow and sword, the other with a pistol
7. Petronels
8. Knights *

1. Light Billman
2. Heavy Billman
3. Yeoman archer
4. Longbow archer (a more heavily armoured longbow unit, don't really know how to name it, so if you have suggestions...)
6. Arquebusier, Musketeer *
7. Dismounted man-arms - England was the only country that succeeded in convincing its heavy cav that sometimes it's better to fight on foot
8. Crossbowman, Arbalesters *
9. Yeoman of the Guard (Tudor guard)
10. Foot Levy (County Militia)
11. Trained Band Billman
12. Trained Band Pikeman
13. Tudor Pike
14. Dismounted knight



France:

1. Knights *
2. Gendarmes – early and late
3. Coustilliers
4. Archer a cheval
5. Chevaux-Legers
6. Two guard units, based on 2 for early and late periods
7. Mounted crossbowman, Mtd arquebusiers *
8. Argoulets
9. Carabins
10. Millers

1. Town militia *
2. Crossbowman, arbalesters *
3. Musketeers *
4. Scottish guard
5. Gascon infantry
6. Franc archer
7. Swiss and Landsknechts as mercenaries
8. French pike – poor quality early pikemen
9. Foot Sergeants *
10. Merc unit – Genoese crossbowman
11. French Royal Pike – a mid 16th century regular infantry formation
12. French Royal Arquebusiers
13. French Arquebusiers – early arquebusiers
14. Hand-gunners


Burgundy

1. Knights *
2. Gendarmes – early and late
3. Coustilliers
4. Two guard units same as above
6. Mtd crossbowman, Mtd arquebusiers *
7. Mtd sergeants


1. Flemish Pikeman - after Swiss, the best 15th century infantry in Western Europe
2. Crossbowmen, Arbalesters
3. Hand gunners
4. Arquebusiers, Musketeers
5. Archer *
6. Mounted Archer - yes they had horses but they never used them in combat, nor were they trained to fight on horseback; it was just to increase mobility. Basically they will be elite archer unit, capable of handling themselves well in close combat
7. Pikeman - just an ordinary pikeman unit, no or very little armour, modest status
8. Town militia - lightly armoured spearman, shield and sword, spear or some sort of staff weapon *
9. Foot Sergeants *



Poland

1. Knights *
2. Szlachta *
3. Strzelcy
4. Towarzysze
5. Racowie, Racowie Strzelcy
6. Lithuanian Boyars
7. Lithuanian retainers
8. Tatarzy
9. Husaria
10. Pancerni
11. Petyhorcy
12. Kozacy Rejestrowi
13. Kozacy

1. Levy archers
2. Crossbowmen, Arbalesters *
3. Foot sergeants *
4. Town militia *
5. Lithuanian archers
6. Cossack infantry: Zaporozska pihota
7. Polish Arquebusiers
8. Wybraniecka piechota
9. Wybraniecka pikinierzy


Germany (both Habsburgs and Saxony)

1. Knights *
2. Gothic Man-at-arms *
3. Frei Ritter
4. Maximilian Man-at-arms – light and heavy version (with and without the horse bard)
5. Reiter
6. Schwarze Reiter – possible mercenary unit
7. Mounted sergeants *
8. Mounted crossbowman, arquebusiers *


1. Crossbowman, Arbalesters *
2. Archer *
3. Swiss, Landsknechts – mercenary units
4. Town militia *
5. Burghers
6. Burghers pikemen (piekeniers)
7. Hand gunners *
8. Arquebusiers, Musketeers *
9. Foot sergeants *
10. Kaiserlicher Fussknechts – Piekeniers, Musketiers, Harquebuchsen,
11. Rondartschiere

Swiss units

1. Halberdiers
2. Armoured Pikemen
3. Pikemen
4. Hand gunners
5. Arquebusiers
6. Crossbowmen

Landsknechts units

1. Armoured Pikemen
2. Pikemen
3. Crossbowmen
4. Arquebusiers
5. Doppelsoldner
6. Halberdiers
7. Verlorne Haufe

Artillery units

1. Bombard
2. Serpentine
3. Organ gun
4. Siege gun
5. Culverin
6. Demi Culverin
7. Falconet
8. Cannon Royal


That should be all of them, I included the Germabns twice, the top one is only the translations, having the unit list in english as well makes it easier to read.

[Duke Malcolm]

The Scottish Schiltrons should have the ability to go into a formation where they are in a circle with all their pikes pointing out, like a hedgehog.
This made them very good against cavalry, and some infantry, but weak against archers...

[Salazar]

Germany (both Habsburgs and Saxony)

1. Knights *

Singular: Ritter
Plural: Ritter

2. Gothic Man-at-arms *

Singular: Gotischer Soldat
Plural: Gotische Soldaten

3. Frei Ritter

Singular: Freier Ritter
Plural: Freie Ritter

4. Maximilian Man-at-arms – light and heavy version (with and without the horse bard)

Singular: Maximilianischer Soldat
Plural: Maximilianische Soldaten

5. Reiter

Singular: Reiter
Plural: Reiter

6. Schwarze Reiter – possible mercenary unit

Singular: Schwarzer Reiter
Plural: Schwarze Reiter

7. Mounted sergeants *

Singular: Sergeant zu Pferd
Plural: Sergeanten zu Pferd

8. Mounted crossbowman, arquebusiers *

Singular: Armbrustschütze zu Pferd/ Arkebusier zu Pferd
Plural Armbrustschützen zu Pferd/ Arkebusiere zu Pferd
1. Crossbowman, Arbalesters *

Singular: Armbrustschütze, Arbalestenschütze
Plural: Armbrustschützen, Arbalestenschützen

2. Archer *

Singular: Bogenschütze
Plural: Bogenschützen
3. Town militia *

A bit more Complex,

One Militiaman would be „Milizionär“, one Militia would be „Miliz“ and several Militias would be „Milizen“
4. Burghers

Singular: Bürger
Plural: Bürger

Burghers pikemen (piekeniers)

Singular: Bürgerpikenier
Plural: Bürgerpikeniere

7. Hand gunners *

Singular: Handbüchsenschütze
Plural: Handbüchsenschützen

8. Arquebusiers, Musketeers *

Singular: Arkebusier, Musketier
Plural: Arkebusiere, Musketiere

9. Foot sergeants *

Singular: Sergeant zu Fuß
Plural: Sergeanten zu Fuß

10. Kaiserlicher Fussknechts – Piekeniers, Musketiers, Harquebuchsen,

Singular: Kaiserlicher Fußknecht, Pikenier, Musketier, Arkebusier
Plural: Kaiserliche Fußknechte, Pikeniere, Musketiere, Arkebusiere

11. Rondartschiere

Singular: Rondartschier
Plural: Rondartschiere

Landsknechts units

1. Armoured Pikemen

Singular: Gepanzerter Landsknecht-Pikenier
Plural: Gepanzerte Landsknecht-Pikeniere

2. Pikemen

Singular: Landsknecht-Pikenier
Plural: Landsknecht-Pikeniere

3. Crossbowmen

Singular: Landsknecht-Armbrustschütze
Plural: Landsknecht-Armbrustschütze

Arquebusiers

Singular: Landsknecht-Arkebusier
Plural: Landsknecht-Arkebusiere

Doppelsoldner

Singular: Doppelsöldner
Plural: Doppelsöldner

Halberdiers

Singular: Landsknecht-Hellebardier
Plural: Landsknecht-Hellebardiere

7. Verlorne Haufe

Hmm, the Unit Name would be „Verlorener Haufen“, whilst one Member of the Unit would probably be something like „Soldat des verlorenen Haufens“, which doesnt sound good, i would try to only use the Unit name not that of a single soldier.

Swiss names, will probably be translated into „Schwyzerdytsch“ ;-)

[Speiz_Bankurt]

Yggdrasil,

I have a few links with pictures and impressions of Hungarian hussars, including early hussar which is really hard to find. If you still need this info, check out these sites. They're in hungarian, but the pictures speak for themselves.

http://magyarhuszar.hu/huszar/huszar_matyas.htm

http://magyarhuszar.hu/huszar/huszar_huszartorna.htm

http://magyarhuszar.hu/huszar/huszar_torok_01.htm

http://magyarhuszar.hu/huszar/huszar_torok_02.htm

http://magyarhuszar.hu/huszar/huszar_zsakmany.htm

http://magyarhuszar.hu/huszar/huszar_elso_ezredek.htm

and

http://www.kali-medence.hu/salfoldmajor/huszarok/


later periods, perhaps irrelevant:

http://magyarhuszar.hu/huszar/huszar..._1683-1768.htm


Cheers

[kaya]

hello i'd like to say some things if i may, i know a lot about the ottoman empire, first of all the jannisary corps was an elite amongst all other infantry and had only mustages and no beards (if you want pictures i can draw them for you, not 3d ofcourse), and they where accompanied with akinci (not akinji) and the akinci where not armoured much but where fearsome shock cav who attacked enemy lines before the jannisary to enspire them into attack, and the real name for jannisary was YENICERI, if you want the ottoman army to be complete you will need a mehter band they where musicians who played during a battle to give the men courage (i can also send you some music of the ottoman army that was used in attack).
I'm not trying to critisize your ideas, just trying to be usefull and give you the right info.

[Uesugi Kenshin]

Have anything to support your spelling of akinji? I do not mean to seem hostile towards your ideas but you spelled Janissary wrong so I am slightly doubtful.

Other than that could you substantiate your other claims? I know the Janissaries were an elite, but after a certain point they made up a large part of the army.

If you would also substantiate the role of the Akinji that would be great.

Thanks for the input.

[kaya]

Hello.. i'm not gonna critisize you guys but just give you some details about the ottoman empire: the jannisary corps were not slaves but captured christian childeren who were raised as muslims and most of them did convert to the islam by theyre own will, also dont think lightly of the jannisary corps because they were an elite amongst the elite, with little armour they were very skilled and strong and brave soldiers, as for the akinji it is spelled akinci and they didnt plunder and destrof everything, they were proud cav who attacked the enemy before the jannisary to inspire them and give them courage to attack, also the ottoman empire always had respect for other religions and did not destroy churches and never forced other people to convert to the islam but they set islamic laws at places they concoured, back to the jannisary corps: they always had a mehter band (musicians) with them playing the attack music to encourage them, if you like i could draw you some pictures and send you anything you like because ive seen some screenshots and it looks fantastic, i'm trying to moddel to but i just figured out how to mod the texture but the geometry and skeletens are still new for me and my max trial is about to expire in 10 days so i won't be able to do much just texture but you guys are doing a great job keep it up guys....

[Yggdrasill]

Akinji is an anglicised form of the akinci. I know that, and recently we decided to go with authentic names (and spelling) for most if not all units, and akinji will be changed to akinci. Also, the Yeniceri was also the name that was agreed upon see the page before.

Beards - I don't think our models of Janissaries have beards. I have to check

Musicians - impossible since we would need new animations for that, plus it would take up a model entry slot and there is a limit to those so we have to be careful not to include something that is not absolutely necessary. And musicians are not necessary.

Akinji did plunder a lot and were devastating to a country they were unleashed upon. Raiding parties attacking as deep as Friuli would gather up 10 000+ prisoners to be sold as slaves. If that is not devastating I don't know what is.

Janissaries are an elite in the game. Later on (17th century) they were no longer that good but that is beyond the scope of our mod.

Ottoman rule in the 15th and 16th century was rather benevolent and allowed a lot of freedom, especially religious. We have several Christian units included in the Ottoman army. . But later, with battlefield failures, it worsened.

[kaya]

hey there, akinci did plunder but did not kill or harm innocent civilians and also the akinci were not normal cav they were an elite and fought in the front of the battle but they were usually used for special assignments for the sultan such as rescue missions or protect the sultan on his way to his destination, the akinci were no barbaric force but special forces who fought for pride rather than plunder and if they plundered it was the enemy's stock and the gold and valuables of the enemy king but in no way did they kill or plunder from civilians, i know this because i'm a Turk and i did study allot about the Ottoman empire, it's a pity of those mucisians, can you show me some screenshots of the janissary? Again i'm not critisizing you guys just trying to help because i like your concept of the game

[Yggdrasill]

There are some screenshots in the Available Screenshots thread.

Strange what you say about akinjis. I have read a lot about the Ottoman empire (hell I even had to take a course in its history and law history at uni) and everywhere I read that the akinjis were raiders - that the very word akin means to raid or to plunder (if you are a Turk can you verify this translation for me?). In any case, I find it hard to believe that they did not harm civilians or plunder as even today armies do that on a regular basis. Also, my info tells me that the akinjis were irregulars, not paid so they had to rely on booty from campaigns for profit. Unlike Sipahy cavalry which were supported by state owned timar fiefs.
Very rarely, in any culture or religion, do people ever fight only for pride. It is usually much baser than that - some kind of material gain is to be derived from war. War is fueled by economy as much as it fuels it.

I do not mean to portray the Turks as savages or barbarians, by no means. In fact, in MTW I only played the Turks and plan to do the same when the mod is finished. So you might say I have a soft spot for the Ottoman empire. But the Ottoman conquest by its very strategy tended to be brutal. For yearsor decades even before the actual attack, raids were frequent, population was taken as prisoners, harvests burned and livestock taken. Such raids were done by the akinjis. This was done in order to undermine the economy of the enemy (based mostly on agriculture) and undermine his morale. Only then the main strike would follow up, usually an entire army commanded by the sultan.
Ironically, once the conquest of the new territory was complete, Ottoman rule was often much more efficient and better organized than the original rulers they replaced, and the common farmer was better protected than in the still feudal Christian world (because the sipahy did not have a direct control over timar fief, and could not exercise any kind of authority over the serf, since they and their land, belonged to the state, unlike nobility in Christian Europe, who had almost godlike powers over their subjects). At least for some time, before the state started to break at its seams.
Being from a country that took the brunt of Ottoman attacks, we learn a lot about this in school, and it's pretty much made clear that there was no such thing as an innocent civilian to Ottoman raiders - they were all fair game to be herded and sold into slavery.
I'm not criticising nor do I have a problem with this. After all, all of this happened 500 years ago. I just want to say that wars by their very nature are brutal affairs (and Christian armies were no less brutal in wars be it against protestants, Catholics or Muslims), and the Ottoman conquests were no exception. And the strategy employed by the Ottomans, made them even more brutal.
Anyway, we study most of this in school, but I've also read other books (at university the aforementioned course I took, General history of Law and State, included a chapter about the Ottoman empire, and the author is a Muslim), some of them from English and Western European authors, and they all pretty much agree on this. I'm curious, how does your history describe the events of the Ottoman conquests in Europe? What do you learn in school?

[Uesugi Kenshin]

So Akinci it is.

I remember we talked about yeniceri. We will use that as well, but mention in the unit description that they are more commonly known as Janissary.

One theory on why the Turkish schools and/or publications may not confront the Akinci brutality (all armies committ horrible acts, not singelling them out as more brutal) is that they are biased. I know the history books made by Americans are biased, we cover Europe, the US and Americas and very little about ancient Asian cultures, 1 tiny chapter devoted to Fuedal Japan, China and Korea and a few other things, but there is a definate and overwhelming focus on Europe and the Americas.

[kaya]

ok, sorry i kept you waiting, the akinci were not ordinary civilians, they were the diehards who would gladly give they're live for their country and did fight for proud and honour, the samurai also fought for pride and country so its not that rare people fought for honour and country.
The word akin means something that's flowing, keeps coming without stopping and because the akinci kept coming at the enemy without braking and running away they called them akinci but akinci is the word for just one of them, if you want to name them as a unit they were originally called akincilar (like preatorians instead of preatorian), so my friend now i know that they teach you guys wrong at your schools, its a shame you cant understand Turkish because you could then read the true history of the Ottoman empire in Turkish (the real history),
but i am astounded cause you know a lot do and i'm honoured that you gave a lot of time in my country's history .
And the akincilar were usually used for special missions mostly like i told you before, the most famous of them all was Malkoc oglu ( son of Malkoc in English), and that my friend is what we learn at school, i was born in Turkey and raised in Holland so i've had history lessons here in Holland to but that was wrong also, so i took Turkish classes also and that's how it is, sorry if i bug you with my private live but i really want you to know the real Ottoman history
also the cotton like hats of the gunmen janissary you guys created has to be a little more higher but the rest is magnifficent and also the swordsmen janissary whore those hats too, sorry for critisizing you guys but i don't mean it wrong

[Narayanese]

I took a look in the dictionary
akıncı = raider, incursionist
akın = raid, assault, flow, rush, foray
akıntı = flow, current, running, flux
akıcılık = fluency

I can't see the unitlist for Kalmar Union.
Is there something you want me to translate into swedish or danish (not that I'm good at danish)?
Anything like this? http://bjorn.foxtail.nu/ovriga_folk2.htm

[kaya]

i dont know who wrote that dictionary but it isnt raider and at no way assault, i am Turkish and i know my language but the English maybe called them raiders but in our history they were called akincilar because they kept coming and not because they were raiders cause they were not, but you guys keep hammering they were so make the game like you want i don't care but do not tell me what my history is cause i know it, i just wanted to help you guys because i wanted to be helpfull but i will backoff now so good luck with your mod

[Uesugi Kenshin]

Thank you for giving us your view of the akinci. We are all about free input and discussion. If you have something else you think should be rectified in some way go ahead and tell us.

[Yggdrasill]

Narayanese

You're Swedish? Well why didn't you say so earlier! I've already mentioned that I do not have a shred of info on the Scandinavian armies and that I'd more than happy if someone else did their units instead of me. If you speak both Swedish and Danish, why don't you do it? Search the internet for any info, I already tried and lot of it is in some strange language that is probably something you'd understand. Also, you can visit your local library and probably find something also. If I asked for books in my library about the Scandinavian armies in the late Medieval period and Renaissance, they probably laugh at me!
I've done all the factions except the Kalmar union. So just them and some rebel factions (like Ireland) and we're done. The problem is that the unit cap for models is 255 (we can have that many entries for models - than each entry can have a different skin for every faction applied plus one for the merc and slave faction 20 + 2 =22. Based on that we can than make a single unit for every faction, with a different name and stats, but only one per faction, additional units even though they might look the same, need an additional entry). So before I post the units I have to make it fit into that number. And try as I might I just can't sqeeze everything in. I was thinking about leaving out standard bearers (leaving us with just generals and officers). That would free up about 8 entries. What do you think?


Kaya

When I said irregulars I didn't mean they were ordinary civilians - just that they did not receive money from the sultan or didn't get land revenue for their services (like sipahies). They would get all the booty they could carry plus a certain amount of money for every slain enemy - they'd cut the heads of the enemy and count them! Nice! In a way they needed constant wars to sustain themselves.
Akinci were greatly feared by their opponents. They were elusive, always appearing were nobody expected, could attack hundreds of kilometers deep into enemy territory, and retreat before anybody could react (like special forces if you will but you can't really equate the 15th century military formation with contemporary special forces like the SEAL or SAS). And if a feudal army of heavy cavalry and infantry could catch up, they would usually get their asses handed to them! Like in 1493 when a numerically superior Croatian army caught up with a returning Ottoman akinci formation and suffered the worst defeat in centuries. It is said that there were so many Christians dead that the Tuks had given up on cutting their heads and just cut off their noses because they could take that many heads with them but still wanted to get the reward from the sultan!

Thanks for the translation! I don't see it as being contrary to the raider theory. When I said they were raiders, I meant they operated like light cavalry, bypassing enemy fortifications, 'flowing' around the flanks of the enemy, like water - bypassing obstacles and finding a weak spot to break through! So in a way your translation fits well!
Don't get upset at us! We mean no harm, we're a rather inquisitive bunch and always eager to learn more. So stick around and help us by translating other Ottoman units.
The dictionary offers several translations for the word akinci including:

akın = raid, assault, flow, rush, foray
akıntı = flow, current, running, flux

So it's not any different from what you told us! Words have a funny way of transforming their meaning. As I see it, the akin word was applied to the specific brand of light cavalry (earlier on probably called ghazis) because of their 'flowing' style of fighting. Avoiding superior enemy formations and fortifications and attacking quickly. After some time the name stuck and came to signify not only that unit but also that particular style of fighting - raiding! The Christians adversaries took that meaning as the primary for the word akin and it stuck. No need to get upset.
Janissary hats were raised as time passed. Initially they weren't very high. Later on, like 17th century or later, they became really high, but that is outside the scope of the mod, which ends in 1600.

If you know of any good books by Turkish authors available in English and possibly through Amazon, could you please recommend it! I'd like to learn more about history from the other perspective as well. It doesn't have to be a historical book, it can be a historical novel as well. I recently read 'My name is Red' by Orhan Pamuk and I liked it a lot. Not as great as The name of the Rose but a very good book nonetheless.



On a side note, I just browsed the official forums and found a lot of info on the expansion. It will really rock, add new features, probably get rid of some of the restrictions we are under like the unit and faction cap, and most importantly - RELIGION IS BACK!!!!

[Narayanese]

I'll do the scandinavian units. I wonder what units from other faction can be reused. Can you post equipment list for archers, knights, handgunners, town militia, arquebusiers, crossbowmen.

Knights (riddere/riddare) weren't common because they could only be dubbed by the king, so the vast majority of the nobles were squires (vaepnere/väpnare/vaebnere), so I'll have the knights as bodyguard only and vaepnere as heavy cav (armour: full armour, gauntlets, has gorget also protecting the mouth and a kettlehelm which doesn't cover the eyes, no horsebard. weapon: spear (without banner on it), longsword).
Is it possibly to use the generic knights unit as bodyguard without using up a unit slot?

Skipping standard bearers is good, as the flags that float in the air are already enough, two flags per unit is too much.

When will the marian reform be? (about which year?)

[Uesugi Kenshin]

I think we decided on using the Renaissance as our Marius Reforms right? It would then be in the vicinity of 1485, but gunpowder weaponry was available before then so maybe we should allow gunpowder units to be trained somewhere around 1450, slowed by building times or something, and have 1450ish to 1485 be the only time where we allow the new ways to really meet the old ways.

Another option is to have the reforms be around 1450 and have the Renaissance be an event, if possible with major effects akin to the reforms, but not quite the same.

Wonder if the english akin comes from turkish akin, nowhere near the same meaning, but you never know. Akin def: similar, of the same kind.

[Ignoramus]

Well, I think about 1452, It will allow 100 turns of "Medieval" fighting, the first two main importances of guns were the Siege of Constantinople and the Battle of Castillion. Although, we'll need at least one non-gunpowder artillery unit, perhaps a Treberchaut or something.

[Abokasee]

WHEN ARE YOU GONNA SHOW SOME PICTURES???!!?!?