Triari and phalanx

[Red Harvest]

Kraxis,

Thanks for weighing in on this. I appreciate your comments. I started a similar somewhat more detailed thread in the Monestary on the same subject. Early Roman Army Thread

As you say, it appears that this is very much conjecture, since even the "contemporary writers" were writing several hundred years later in most cases.

What sort of sword do you think the Romans were using during the early Republic? Have you seen any archaelogical info for the period that provides a few clues? The literature I've seen so far provides almost nothing and the authors are almost entirely mute (suggesting they have no idea?) They get all excited about the hispanic gladius, but that clearly came later--there is a big void. It doesn't sound like the Romans were using the falcata, but they might have had some form of kopis as a leftover/transition from hoplite days, but I'm not sure how good of a weapon they might have had (metallurgy and blacksmithing skills.)

Yes, the hastati are very interesting and I'm only quoting from the book. Whether they had pila this early or not is a good question. They could probably carry several more javelin than pila so I could see it going either way if pila were available and depending on how they wanted to employ the hastati and whether or not they used many other skirmishers. Are there pila head finds that fit in the correct dateline (320 to perhaps 260 B.C.)? It could easily be as you say and wouldn't really surprise me. One thing that suggests otherwise though, would be that the spear would take less training than the sword, and the hastati were the youngest and least trained of this militia force. I imagine a spear was cheaper as well. That was my reason for guessing (and it is only guessing) that the principes would have more expensive swords. The principes would on average have been older property holders that had been through more campaigns, so I could see them being more proficient with a sword.

[Kraxis]

The kopis/falcata-type sword is indeed what I have heard the Romans would have used. But it is certainly possible that they used enchiridion-type swords, short stabbing weapons (sound familiar?), at the same time rather cheap due to size (something like very large dagger, if you know the Saexe it would fit well in size). The Hastati certainly had swords when Pyrrhus entered the field as they fought more extensively.
Perhaps sword isn't the best word as we tend to think of either gladii or big celtic longswords. These were small and fast weapons, not cleavers, and at the same time not of any particular quality, but then again they didn't need to be as they weren't fencing weapons.

If the hastati had pila or javelins is not to guess easily, but if they had access to cheap swords then it is possible that they had access to pila as well, from a finacial point of view. But Rome was rather poor at the time, being farmers and herders, so javelins is my bet.
The pila is quite old, I think I have read about Etruscan pilaheads from around 550BC. But it is not impossible that the Romans either couldn't afford to equip troops on large scale with this or that they merely saw it as a battlefield curiousity.

A conclusion is forming in my mind right at this very moment.
The Hastati, being young and inexperienced as well as quite poor can only afford javelins and a cheap stabbingsword.
The Principes on the other hand have both the money and the skills to equip themselves with kopis-type swords that demand you can swing a sword, but is also generally more effective.
Another type of sword that possibly could have been used was a larger type of the enchiridion, something that has gone under the popular name of hoplitesword (try and google it). It is very much fencable and still a very capable stabber.

[Red Harvest]

I considered that there was equal chance that the sword of the time for hastati was more of a dagger, like one of the large triangular types (parazonium?) It would probably be cheap and more forgiving of poor metallurgy/blacksmithing when in use.

I was getting the kopis crossed with the leaf shaped hoplite blade in my head. I'm less inclined to believe that a hastati sword of the time was the falcata/kopis. I've read that the Romans added the iron rim to the upper edge of the scutum after facing it (without the iron rim the shield doesn't do much good if your opponent cleaves it in a single blow--and with the weighting of the falcata and my experiences splitting hardwoods with a small hatchet as a kid it looks quite capable of doing so in practiced hands.) It appears more of a hacking weapon than a thrusting weapon looking at the shape, weighting and hand grip, so it seems less "Roman."

Could be as another author suggests, pre-Polybian sword weapon used by possibly Hastati and/or Principes was similar to the later gladius, but more prone to bend or break than the better made gladius hispanicus that replaced it. As such it might not have been all that different from a hoplite sword, perhaps a bit broader. It certainly would be a natural cultural progression: swordsmen to hoplites, back to swords of a modified hoplite style, and finally the metallurgy and blacksmithing catching up.