desert battles

[bretwalda]

Please give me some thoughts! I know generally it is a good idea to bring no-armor troops to the desert and I can expect them to get tired fast. But what other things are to be observed? Also, what units to use if you happen to be a christian faction?

Beduin Camel Warriors seem to be very effective in desert: what would you use to counter them? On defence maybe it is easier, because I can try to shoot them up with archers, but whats the story on offense?

[Boris of Bohemia]

They start to cook at armor 3 (in a summer test). Vikings, Clansmen, Gallowglasses, or urban militia with any valor (Tuscany) work well as foot units, and can deal with camels. fmaa or militia sargeants are ok for a while.

[henoch]

welcome to the desert -enjoy the silence

first, the desert is not flat. there are hills everywhere, so beside the sun-effect, you want maneuverable -light/none armoured units.

sun-effect: exhaustion rises much to fast, especially if they bake themself. for testing put there a "Kataph-Kharazmian Cav" on a desert hill top, and wait 5 min. -bing!(microwave-sound)

but remember, a unit coming in, "the second inning", will have two exhaustion points left (which is better in my cases)

atm, i`m with the turks and a stack of 15 turcomen horse deal anything, but the beduines..

beduines: to have the full understanding of this "secret n`suspicious" units you have to built one yourself..and dismount it: these guys are----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- VANILLA PEASANTS!! (probably the most expensive peasants unit in MTW) 40!!!-..and 40 camels.

camels: bigger targets then horse.., testing with "spear" showed same "results" like stabbing a horse. -from crusade manual (cpt.12)
-and, these guys smell...i tell ya. horse hate it, like rat do mice.(although horse don`t kill camels right away, they ran off..)

but take a look into: frogbeasteggs complete unit guide..look for "barded" horses.

[5$phrase:there is no useless unit in MTW, all it requires is another strategy and numbers.referring: one is none, anyway.]

[Marquis de Said]

As the Catholics, I would take Feudal Sergeants, some FMAA (without armour upgrades), Militia Sergeants, Archers, any horse archers you have, and Mounted Sergeants. Maybe one unit of heavy cavalry to break strong enemy units.

Don't worry about the fatigue too much. If you rush the enemy with good offensive units (FMAA, Militia Sergeants, Cavalry) early on, you should have the upper hand in the battle and hopefully even win it straight away. If you have a prolonged battle, then the fatigue sets in, and that's when the lighter infantry and cavalry come handy. So in a way it depends on how big the army you're facing is and what type of units they have. For me, battles are all about the right matchups: take out their archers with your light cavalry, smash their spearmen with FMAA or Militia Sergeants and use your spears to pin down their cavalry and camels.

One of my tactics for getting rid of annoying enemy camels or cavalry is walking a unit of spears at them. If they attack, that's good because I have them pinned down. If they don't attack, I charge my spearmen at them and then press the halt button when they engage. That way the camels or cavalry end up fighting my spearmen and I can get a unit of my cavalry or swordsmen to flank them. I know a lot of people will say you shouldn't charge your spearmen, but in this case I would do it, because the AI often will avoid contact or try to move to the spearmen's flank. If you charge, the cavalry or camels have no choice but to engage and even though you lose a few men in the process, the unit should hold out long enough for you to bring help around the flank.

[bretwalda]

Well... Camels gave me trouble...

I managed to rout their first wave and I never lost a battle after routing the enemy once. But this time, yes. The second wave of bedouins came and routed my Székely-s and soon the whole battle was lost.

Well, my plan was to shoot them up, but that did not work too well :) These camels are quite fast and tire much slower than horses (I guess that is for deserts) I guess my army was way too horse-heavy.

I guess it is because I love the mobility the Székelys provide - but they are useless against camels. Oddly - as Boris stated - this is the horse unit that should be countered with foot units. Anyway basic units like spearmen and archers fared very well compared to their price ;) But a worthwhile experience I think I will play a few custom battles in desert... ;)

[Ironside]

Remind you that the first wave isn't getting tired enough to get slaughtered, but can kill your low tech desert army, but if you can afford losing the first wave (and save your general) you can regroup and kill the shattered enemy and from now on the enemy is exhausted.

Camels are best countered by spearmen (preferbly FS in the desert).

My standard catholic army consists of:

FS
Mounted sergs
Archers
MS or UM
Turkopoles (if the holy lands is taken)
Or other low-armour units (several mentioned but I can add woodsmen)

Notice, this army is only effective when the enemy is exhausted.

[Tomcat]

To be honest with you I have always found it pays to go into a desert battle archer heavy as camels make such large targets. I usually go in with about 6 units of archers (put them in a double row of 3 units) protected by spearmen or feudal sergeants, then add a couple of units of Vikings/Clansmen for attacking or to protect the flanks and a couple of units of light cavalry (Holibars/Mounted Sergeants) used for attacking their archers or simply for protecting the flanks and chasing down routing units.

Tomcat

[bretwalda]

Last night I did a test. Attacked with a 7500 vs 7500 florins army. One of them was picked by me the other was all-camel. And my basically foot army killed (and routed) the camel army without much trouble (and I was the attacker). So I have to be careful with horses but other than that anything beats camels :)

[derF]

I just tend to hire as many merc desert fighters as possible, throw them in an army with a good general and flex my tactics around the mix of troops i have.

Most of the times it pulls off.