A Quick Economics Guide & Primer to RTW

**Tamur** · 10-25-2004, 20:31

Also re: trade distance, there must be something to this. The largest income cities I've ever had have been pairs like Londinium/Samarobriva, Corduba/Tingi, and Patavium/Ariminum.

Didn't think about that at all until I saw your post andrewt, good point.

**therother** · 10-26-2004, 05:11

Originally Posted by Tamur

Also re: trade distance, there must be something to this.

A bit more data, this time from Kydonia:

Code:

Pop	Import	Town	DisCity	DisPort
16379	469	Sardis	25	15.5
18595	489	Perga	30	20

DisCity is the city-city straightline distance.
DisPort is the straightline distance from the rally point of each port.

Only thing I would say is that it may go on the length of trade route itself, which is much, much harder to quantify.

**therother** · 10-26-2004, 05:33

A bit more data, this time from Tarentum.

Code:

Pop	Exports	Town	DisCity	DisPort	Resources	
15516	1436	Salona	12.5	9	Only Cu
28733	1296	Apollo	10	4.5	Cu, Timb
29777	613	Therm	20	11.5	Cu, Timb

Only thing I would say this time is that Tarentum is my capital, and I've always suspected funny things happen with it.

Oh, and if you notice that Apollonia is ~half the distance than Thermon, and the income is also roughly half, despite having similar populations. So, my current theory is that distance plays a major role, whilst population plays a more minor role.

**Quietus** · 10-26-2004, 05:27

Originally Posted by therother

I'm not sure, I'd have to see your data to see exactly what you mean.

Example: N.M (forgot which test was this)
Prov. (turn)(turn+1)(turn+2)
Land trade:
Lem (149)(150)(152)
Lug (204)(205)(205)
Mas (118)(119)(120)
Osc (78)(79)(79)
Sea Imports:
Arr (93)(93)(99)
Seg(80)(81)(81)
Sea Exports:
Arr (319)(320)(321)
Pal (273)(277)(278)

What's causing those tiny number increases? When testing and calculating 40 denari values and lower, you can understand how it can change the deviation by a lot.

Originally Posted by therother

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quietus
I have to dispute this. I checked for population effect on trade but there's no relationship I've seen. For example: Tingi gets 1700+ denari income from exporting the same stuff to Corduba, but only about 200+ denari with Carthago Nova. Maybe it is distance related?

I think perhaps distance is a factor, but trade income is most definitely affected by population. Absolutely no question - I've seen what happens when you change populations. You lose money from exports, the imports you already get, and you might lose entire import routes. [see example]

Interesting results. I also forgot to mention that Carthago Nova has about 16000+ pop while Corduba has 15000+ pop. Perhaps, distance is a much bigger factor. Also, no trade buildings were destroyed when you reduced the population?

Originally Posted by Tamur

Quote:
Originally Posted by therother
the trade income from Byzantium (to Athens) dipped (~7%) when I constructed the Imperial Palace.

I've had the same thing happen when finishing trade-building upgrades. I finally did find my data file from that test I ran two weeks ago. Will have to dig it out and get some income-dip percentages for each of the buildings, but it was quite consistent IIRC.

That is weird. So there's level-dependency too when factoring trade income? BTW, the trade routes never changed at all?

**therother** · 10-26-2004, 05:38

Originally Posted by Quietus

Also, no trade buildings were destroyed when you reduced the population?

Absolutely nothing changed but the population, not even the date!

Originally Posted by Quietus

So there's level-dependency too when factoring trade income? BTW, the trade routes never changed at all?

No changes, no. I'm being to suspect a situation similar to what it was for squalor - only more complicated! Which if it is, I think we may never get a good handle on the numbers, unless a Dev comes in and gives us the equations behind them.

Edit: Thanks for the numbers. Some of them could well be population changes, but one or two look a bit odd.

**therother** · 10-26-2004, 06:11

Final bit of data for now:

This is taken from Croton before and after I declare war on the other Roman factions (which own Messana and Syracuse)

Code:

Pop	Exports	Town	DisCity	DisPort	Goods	
15516	880	Salona	18.5	17.7	Ag	
14098	805	Mess	10	9	Ag	Ally,Trade Agreement
21950	764	Syra	15	17.2	Ag	Ally,Trade Agreement

Pop	Exports	Town	DisCity	DisPort	Goods	
15516	880	Salona	18.5	18	Ag	
28733	590	Apoll	11.5	14	Ag	
29777	491	Therm	18	15	Ag

**khelvan** · 10-26-2004, 06:17

Do you mind if I post some of your work to the Rome Wiki we have set up?

Or would you like to contribute yourself, perhaps?

http://www.kanwei.com/romewiki/

**Tamur** · 10-26-2004, 07:43

therother is busy working on RL, I'm fairly certain he won't have the time to add this to the wiki. Unfortunately same for me here for about a week at least, it's that time of the semester I guess.

One thing to add to the discussion: I did dig out my data from the 20-turn run I did with the Julii a while back. Here's some data of interest:

Arretium started with port, land clearance, roads.

turn 1: tax income was 786, trade income was 210
turn 12: tax income had grown 845, trade was 482. This was not linear with the population -- tax % dropped 3 points based on population + trade + farm incomes
turn 13: finished market. tax income dropped to 774, trade income up a bit to 521.
farm income throughout stayed basically the same

Ariminum started with land clearance, roads.

turn 2: tax income was 697, trade income was 109
turn 3: finished port. tax income dropped to 630, trade income up to 141
turn 6: tax income was 648, trade income was 160
turn 7: finished trader. tax income dropped to 580, trade income went up to 174.

So on average when completing trade upgrades, I got a 68 denarii drop in tax income, and a 28.3 denarii rise in trade income.

I had other completions but they were affected by environmental factors (governor changes, seiges).

I say to myself,

**Quietus** · 10-27-2004, 21:16

Originally Posted by therother

No changes, no. I'm being to suspect a situation similar to what it was for squalor - only more complicated! Which if it is, I think we may never get a good handle on the numbers, unless a Dev comes in and gives us the equations behind them.

With the base trade value, it is definitely worth a couple of tests!! The numbers will be very helpful because I can now track how each values are increased!!

Originally Posted by Khelvan

Do you mind if I post some of your work to the Rome Wiki we have set up?

Or would you like to contribute yourself, perhaps?

Are there dedicated editors or moderators in there that checks the data that comes in? I'm fairly concerned about the integrity of the data and information that's gonna be posted and edited. At least here, I can ask for feedback and responses that I can rebutt myself.