Close Combat 2: A Bridge Too Far

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

Well, I've been playing my brother's copy the last few times, and... it is even better than I'd remember it was. For those of you who don't remember, Close Combat was a series started by Atomic Games published by Microsoft. It was just about all combat RTS, and some of my first strategy moments belong to CC2. I've only played CC2, by the way. Anyhoo, CC2 focuses on Operation Market-Garden, fall of 1944, a bitter struggle between Allied airborne & armor in a combined attack against the Germans in Holland. To learn more, I highly reccomend the book, A Bridge Too Far, by Cornelius Ryan.

Has anyone here played any Close Combat games? I only know about A Bridge Too Far, but it is certainly in my top ten games. It had:
1) simple yet elegent UI - easy to learn but not so easy to master
2) morale - it was there when very few games had it; this was before STW, I believe, and the morale is still more complex, and accurate, than that in the Total War series
3) WW2 action - I just love the period, and it is, to my knowledge, very accurate
4) Blowing up stuff - craters appear where shells land, and there is this one house on one mission that blows up when hit by a morter round... I mean seriously blows up... never quite figured it out, but hey...
5) Soldiers as individuals - you know the name, rank, and record (medals, kills, experiance, morale, etc) of your men - and they can win real medals for their actions in the field!
6) AI can be very challenging, though some campaigns/operations/maps are easier than others
7) Just about completely unscripted
8) In-battle voices are good, real German even! Don't remember if real Polish was used, have to assume so... though the narration of war footage at the start and end of campaigns is all in English, even for the Germans...
9) A variety of units and a good, balanced way to determine how many you could use on the battlefield
10) Very stable, never experianced an error or bug before, cept maybe that house...

Except for graphics, it was the best tactical RTS I ever played - not as good as MTW because it lacked the depth (campaign map and empire building), but I'm thinking it might be better than RTW is (especially considering how old this puppy is, and I'm loving it).

What do you think? I think I've said enough.

[Fragony]

If you liked it get part 3, best of the series imho. It should be dirt cheap by now (if you can find it). It has much better graphics, and the maps allow more ambushing. Yes these are great games.

[Samurai Waki]

God, I loved that game for years. I was never able to master it, after all the AI is pretty tough, and you really have to think like a commander would to protect his troops. Like smoke screens and covering fire into buildings that may or may not have troops in them. I just hated playing as the Allies because the PIAT and Bazooka teams were hard to use and couldn't crack German Armour easily, plus the Germans got tanks much earlier than the Allies. Having that said, I think if this game could ever be rendered into 3d and used the same principles of the last games it could quite possibly be the best WW2 Strategy Game out. Probably even better than Combat Mission: Beyond Overlord, Barbarossa to Berlin, and Afrika Korps games were(which I also recommend for WW2 strategy enthusiasts.)

[Bob the Insane]

Close Combat 2... The game that hooked me on strategy/tactical games...

Personally I always thought that CC2 and possibly CC3 where the highlights of the series. The graphics got a lot better in later versions but the back and forth gameplay over maps which maintained the damage and destroyed vehicles from previous battles of CC2 with success or failure of taking bridges effecting how long some of your men had to hold out and chooseing where to airdrop supplies and the nerve racking battles that started with your men low on ammo and hoping you could just hold on one more time...

In many ways it has not yet been equaled for giving the impression of commanding men rather than robots...

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

I think the Germans have it pretty easy, though to a degree this was historical, as they were the defenders. But just about every single infantry unit has multiple panzerfausts, which can very easily eliminate Allied armor. And the German tanks are very very good, and only the best Allied tanks can hope to get lucky and knock out that Panther, for example. And the street fighting is intense! Sadly the Allied infantry have little counters to German armor, which is again probably historical (I remember that PIATs and Bazookas weren't great, but I don't really know how bad they were).

A 3D version could possibly be the best RTS game ever, if it successfully kept the elements that made it great while using great graphics.

[discovery1]

I loved that game. Maybe I'll prush it off. Great gameply, loved the moral. About that exploding house, I believe that you talk of the square bunker type building with the red box inside. Yes? I also though that the red box was holding explosives. Hit it right and they will go off.

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

I guess so, since I played on a different map and the same kind of house blew up... killing one of my team ... will have to remember that little secret!

[UglyandHasty]

I have closeCombat from #1 to 5. The best of em all is CC3 Russian Front. There's loads of mod and maps for it. Look for CSO clan website, i think they still have a great range of mods and maps(almost all of them).

[Kraxis]

I have played all but 2 and 3 (played a little MP of 3rd). But I must say that in the Ardennes the Germans have way too much armour... Well in all there is far too much armour and certain maps are perfect ambushes with your tanks. I used to love when I could bag an entire column of Shermans with a few Panthers.

But Invasion Normandy was very very balanced. The Germans have no shipsstrikes and no airpower, but they have limited mortarstrikes. The Americans have it all and in greater supply. The Germans are lucky to field a few Pz III or Marders (in really lucky cases they can have StuGs), but mostly they have only old French and Russian tanks, meaning their armour is lousy. They are also rather limited in terms of AT-guns (the 88 is acutally quite bad as it can't use its great range and can't hide, often it gets killed before killing anything). So it all boils down to the Panzerschreck teams when it comes to American tanks.
The Americans have plenty of tanks, but their infantry are not always that good, but then again the Germans have a lot of Osttruppen. But the Germans have the MG42 and the heavy mortars and that makes a difference.

For me the battles involved three fases. Attack, counterattack and stalemate. First one side would attack and run dry, then the other would try and capitalize on it or simply take back lost commandpoints and suffer much the same fate, and then both sides would accept that the battle couldn't be won right away. Most battles lasted for me over two or three fights, and those tanks, especially the Shermans and Stuarts, are nasty since you can't do much about them. A nice Pak 40 in a house is another matter though... hehe

[Lechev]

I have closeCombat from #1 to 5. The best of em all is CC3 Russian Front. There's loads of mod and maps for it. Look for CSO clan website, i think they still have a great range of mods and maps(almost all of them).

Same here ( i have all the 5 series ) and i agree with Hasty; CC3 is the best. However, theres one draw back for CC3 i.e The Germans will still have to duke it out in Berlin irregardless you are winning or loosing against the Russians. I like the MP aspect of the game. It rocks.


Btw, Alexander.....the name of that "some company" is Atomic Games IIRC.

[Kommodus]

Wow, there are more CC fans here than I would have expected. I liked the series a lot too, although I only owned the first game. It didn't have the graphics of its successors, but still had great gameplay.

This game taught me some of the essentials of warfare. I loved playing as the Americans, even though their weapons and armor were not as good, because I loved attacking. I would lightly defend most points on the line, but attack one point (usually the weakest point) with overwhelming, combined-arms firepower. Once I punched through, I could flank the remaining Germans and roll up their line. Even the toughest German tanks could be smashed when surprised from the side.

The comparative weapons seemed to be represented fairly realistically. The American tanks, while simpler and more reliable, were inferior in terms of combat ability. American tanks and anti-tank weapons could not penetrate the frontal armor of the heaviest German tanks; they had to be more clever and strike from the side. Good mobility helped them do this. The Germans had better, heavier weapons, but the Americans won because they improvised clever tactics, had achieved air superiority, and simply had far more resources.

[Lord of the morning]

ah the CC series. I havent played any of those games for years, and since last I played them I have spent some time in the army, reaching the rank of 2nd lutienant, infact I think Im going to try out some actual modern infantry tactics with it right now (just have to actually manage to find the game amongst all my other old games) Thanks for reminding me of agreat game .

[Colovion]

I always had a soft spot for the first one - but The Battle of the Bulge was my favourite one. The Russian Front was also pretty good, but yes - these games were the first "realistic" WW2 games that I've played, and probably were the first games I played that were moral-based. I think the absolute best things about these games were the incredible sound effects and situational effects that they had; something about the distict sound of a German MG42 that just freaked me out many times when I'd get ambushed.

What a great set of games, I hope they come out with new ones with improved graphics... not that it really needs it.