Sid Meier's new "Pirates" game is insidious

[Forward Observer]

I just picked up Sid Meier's new "Pirates" game this week, and so far I am totally impressed. I got the DVD version and it installed without a hitch. Also on the DVD version is a video interview and "making of" movie amd concept art plus the complete original "Pirates" game that Sid put out years ago.

Also included is something you don't se much now-a-days---a really nice 150 page ring bound instruction manual.

I am now officially hooked on this damn game, and I can't remember when I have spent this much time straight, sitting glued to the PC since maybe-- RedBaron 3D or the Total War games.

I played all day Thursday, only taking meals and bathroom breaks. When I finally went to bed it was 4 AM Friday morning. Friday, I got back up at about 9 AM and played until 2 AM this morning.

I got up at 9 AM today and could not wait to get back into pillaging and plundering the Spanish Main. I decided to finally take a real break and come here to post---besides, my back and butt are hurting from setting at the PC so long.

For me this game is so much fun on so many levels, I can hardly begin to describe it. Everything is fun, but I guess I like the sea battles best. It is an absolute shame they didn't implement multiplayer for this aspect of the game. It's a bit simplistic, but still chalenging at the same time.

While not as graphically realistic looking, the open endedness and depth of gameplay of Pirates makes Akella's Pirates of the Caribbean suck big time in comparison. Heck, I'll admit it, except for the sea battles, PTOC pretty much just plain sucked on its on.

The little ships are just beautiful. They are scaled perfectly and seem quite right for the period depicted. The cannon fire is done with a slight slow motion effect, so you get to see your cannon balls, chain, or grape shot slowly arc through the air and then get to enjoy all of the destruction when you score a hit.

I just never get tired of watching the damage animations for the sea battles------tumbling masts, splintering wood, and deck explosions, which in turn cause crates, debris, and little sailors to go flying through the air and into the drink.

The sounds effects are perfect, and you can even hear the little sailors screaming.

All of the music is extremely well done, and it's good enough that you don't get tired of it after listening to it for hours on end. It's mostly origina, they did throw in a few melodies from some familiar sea shanties like "blow the man down" and "Farewell ye Spanish ladies".

There's even a little Carabbean steel drum music, which of course isn't period, but it works.

The whole game has a stylized Disney animated feature quality about it, but believe me it looks great, and it works well for the subject matter.
In fact that may be a good description of the game--it's like being in an animated Disney pirate movie--just no hanging, rotting in a gibbit, or scurvey

There are so many sub--games. Trading, collecting useful items, collecting pieces of treasure maps, searching for the treasure, searching for famous pirates (defeating them is the best way to acquire better pirate ships), following quests, searching for family members ( if you want to follow the loose story line), reading a map, navigating, learning to use the wind, sword fighting, sneaking through unfriendly towns, and lastly dancing. I suck at the dancing---it's actually one of the harder things to do in the game (or maybe it's just me}, but when you make your dancing partner happy, she instigates new quests and gives you new inventory items.

I almost forgot about the land battles---they are quite fun, but do require at little tactical thought. The pirates only get 3 units types--pirates, buccaneers, and officers, while the town defenders get infantry, cavalry, archers, Indian scouts, and artillery. Your units are in little groups of 30 or 40 men and the battles are turn based.--Its very much like chess==only animated with killing--it took me a while to get used to it, but after a couple of tries I finally took and ransacked Havana last night.

If your forces vastly out number the town---you will simply duel the captain of the guard, just like you do the captain of a ship after you board. The duels are quite fun, and somehow they have managed to seamlessly integrate your dueling moves with fully animated segues from one point of the duel to the next. Believe me the duels would do Errol Flynn proud.

One big hint if you try this game--do not play on the easy level other than to maybe get familiar with the controls.

The beginning difficulty level is just too easy and will make things seem shallow and repetitive. Believe me they are not if you start out with at least the middle of the 5 different difficulty levels.

You also have a choice of 5 different starting periods, which span the 100 years or so that is considered to be the classical age of piracy.

I have been playing only one of these start dates for almost 40 hours now, and I'm maybe only a little over 2/3rds finished. I think I just turned 50 in the game, but I have a magic Indian potion that is supposed to extend my life, so who knows how long I'll go before I have to retire to my island estate.

I also have not encountered one bug, lock-up, or glitch in game. The game just screams total polish.

Sid Meier--you insidious b*stard--I hate you!

Cheers

[Kraxis]

So is the Fast Galleon still the best pirate vessel? Or has it been scaled down to a more proper level?

What kind of ships are there?

What are the three types of pirates in land battles? Cavalry? infantry? Well I suppose infantry, but still, what is the difference between them?

Are you still on a quest to find familymembers and can you marry the governors daugher and then plunder the city afterwards (hehe I use to do that, what can be worse than to steal his daughter and then plunder his city)?

The good old Treasure Fleet and Silver Train are still in right? And you can follow in the wake of the Treasure Fleet and pick up fat galleons right (I managed to bag a 37,000 gold galleon once off northern Cuba)?

This definately sounds like a good investment for an old buccaneer like me. Yarrr!

Now Sid only needs to recreate Colonization, then I'm happy.

[Kraellin]

i always enjoy your reviews, f.o., especially when you enjoy whatever it is :)

i dont have the game yet, and was a bit dismayed that everything in every preview basically just said, this is the same old Pirates. every feature is exactly the same. almost all those items in the present game match up with the features in the old game.

however, after reading your review, i may have to re-evaluate. it seems they did keep true to the original game, but added enhancements to each aspect, and not just in the graphics and music. and one can never discount the end user's marathons as a testament to the game :) so, perhaps i will pick this up.

K.

[Forward Observer]

In the interviews with Sid, he pretty much said he wasn't going to fix what wasn't broke, but using today's PC technology bring everything up to date while maintaining the spirit of the original gameplay.

He did remove a navigation feature called sun sighting and ship versus land battles. Now you have either ship to ship combat, or you can land your ship a stretch of beach up from a port and attack by land.

If you win you get to sack the town, and even put a new governor in place on some, but not all. One neat thing here is that you can enlist the aid of local Indain tribes or local pirate clans to also attack a port.

Even if they fail, the battle will have the effect changing the port's economy from population reduction and best of all---reducing the number of soldiers protecting the port

That's how I managed to ramsack the city of Havana. They had 400 soldiers to my crew of 220. I got the closest pirate port to attack. They lost, but Havana's forces were cut in half from the battle, so I marched right in with superiour numbers, defeated the remaing soldiers, and sacked the town.

You only have 3 types of pirate land units---Officers and pirates which are both melee, and buccaneers which are ranged units with muskets.

The colonial units have infantry, town guards, cavalry, archers, artillery, and Indian scouts. Taking the high ground and fighting in the woods seems to be the best tactics for the pirates.

You can also marry a governor's daughter, but first you have to make her swoon with a perfect dance routine. Then you have to court her and duel another suitor.

I have only managed to get through 3 dances with out totallly messing up.
This only got me some clues to some fugitives with prices on their heads. You have to do it perfectly with lots of fancy twirls to make the daughter swoon. When this happens you get the girl plus clues to find lost cities.

As far as the best ships for piracy, that depends. Sloops and Brigs are quick and maneuverable, but their cargo space is limited. Of course you can have several in your fleet and even include large mechantman along for cargo capacitiy.

You only fight with one ship on your side at a time although you may be matched up to two enemies in a sea battle--usually a trade Galleon and her escort.

You can usually pull this off with a bargue, a brig, or a sloop because of their speed and maneuverability, but the the absolute best in my opinion is a frigate.

It's fast, sturdy, and packs a punch with 32 to 40 guns, according to size. I think I got mine when I finally defeated Henry Morgan in the game.

There are 10 historical pirates that you have to track down and defeat in the game--including Captain Kidd and of course---Blackbeard. You also collect pieces of maps to their buried treasures hidden all around the West Indies. Altough not true to the period they did throw in the pirate Jean Lafitte.

As I said earlier the little ships are beautifully modeled and appear to be scaled right---plus they all look correct for the periods coverd.

Here are the models included:

Barque
Brig
Brig of war
Brigantine
Coastal Barque
East Indiaman
Fast Galleon
Flag Galleon
Fluyt
Frigate
Indian canoe
Large fluyte
Large Frigate
Large Merchantman
Mail Runner
Merchantman
Ocean Barque
Pinnace
Royal Galleon
Royal Sloop
Ship of the Line
Sloop
Sloop of War
Trade Galleon
Treasure Galleon
War Galleon
West Indiaman

Hope that answeres some of your questions.

Cheers

[Bob the Insane]

arr me hearties....

Pirates don't land on UK shores unitl next Friday and I will be acquiring a copy...

Could this be the only game where is it appropriate to get a pirated copy???

Just joking...

[Kraxis]

Ah yes the Frigate, but doesn't it only come in late? I alwayd preferred to play early.

Buw WOW that is a lot of ships... Ship of the Line, GAH! Wouldn't want to fight one of those or is it just an even more unmaneuverable version of the war galleon? And Treasure Galleon, YEAH! Can't guess what such a ship transports hehe...

[Forward Observer]

Ah yes the Frigate, but doesn't it only come in late? I alwayd preferred to play early.

Buw WOW that is a lot of ships... Ship of the Line, GAH! Wouldn't want to fight one of those or is it just an even more unmaneuverable version of the war galleon? And Treasure Galleon, YEAH! Can't guess what such a ship transports hehe...

Yes, I was probably 20 years into my career before I managed to capture a 32 gun frigate.

While privateers working for a national power may have had some large ships--in real life pirates usually used small fast ships like sloops or brigantines, and they usually only picked on undefended merchantmen--avoiding contact with real disciplined naval vessels at all costs.

Of course most pirates were cruel and barbarious villains who lived very short lives and met very unglorious ends. Henry Morgan being one of the exceptions to this rule. A game depicting true pirate life would probably not be much fun, so "PIrates" obviously treats the subject with a romanticized eye while maintaining some historical accuracy.

I never played the original "Pirates" game and only have two other pirate games to compare this one to. Akella's original "Sea Dogs" was a wonderul pirate game, and even though it was not a dynamic world as Sid's game is, the naval combat of it was great.

Akella promised an updated sequel with both multiplayer and a truly dynamic game world. They failed miserably when they released the game unfinished and renamed as Pirates of the Caribbean because they snagged a movie tie in with Disney. While the graphics and sea physics were wonderful, the gameplay was buggy and basically sucked bigtime.

Akella is supposedly working on a new pirate game called Captain Blood, but after being burned by both PTOC and their other piece of buggy naval crap==Age of Sail 2, I will really be hesitant before I purchase anything else they develop.

Cheers

[Kraellin]

yup, frigates were always my choice. fast enough and manueverable enough and all those guns and cargo space made it a natural choice. i remember in the old 8 bit days playing this and getting a fleet of frigates. i was pretty much king of the carrabean.

i also tried playing the old game as a merchant, rather than a pirate or pirate hunter. that was much harder, as the trade game wasnt really the main line of things and your profits were hardly ever enough to manage to get anywhere. that was an area that could have been developed a lot more.

i also own pirates of the carrabean. the sea travel and battles were the best i've ever seen in a game. but once you hit land it deteriorated pretty fast. and age of sail was that one with the ultra realistic sailing, wasnt it? that one was just too cumbersome. i've also noticed that almost all of the pirate/sailing games borrowed heavily from sid's original concepts and it got almost humorous that they were all copying from the original Pirates.

i also find it somewhat interesting that sid seems to have run out of original ideas and is just re-working his old titles to the modern day systems. even alpha centauri, which a lot of folks seemed to like, was little more than a re-work of a game and set into the distant future. sorry sid, i dont mean to be catty, but we've not really seen a new eye-popping title in a long time.

K.

[Forward Observer]

Yeah Krae, I guess pretty much everything in gaming today is derivative to some extent and PC gaming been around long enough that just like the movies they are beginning to re-cycle old game plots and ideas.

The great thing here is that for those like me who never got to enjoy some of those original games, we can all now now play them with up to date graphics and features.

Now, if someone would only re-make Red Baron 3D and Panzer Commander, I would be a happy camper.

Cheers

[Kraellin]

hehe, yup. would love to see a few re-makes myself, and not just for the graphics. my list of 'boy, if they'd only done this or that, this would have been a great game!' is quite long :) but then i go, 'well, learn to code, you bum, and you can have any of them you want!'. ah well, i suppose it's like voting, if you dont vote, you've no room to complain ;)

btw, if there are any coders and graphic artists out there that would like to collaborate on a project of a re-make of an old title, i know just the one to do ;)

K.

[The Scourge]

Think he might re-make Sword of the Samurai ?
Good review btw.I think you've sold me on it.

[Kaiser of Arabia]

isnt it a cartoony?

[Forward Observer]

isnt it a cartoony?

I wouldn't call it cartoony, but would rather compare it to the graphic style of a fine Disney animation.

Believe me--given the context of the gameplay, the complexities of the environment, and the sheer size of the "Pirates" game world, it works perfectly.

And by way, the barmaids and Governor's daughters in the game have cartoon bodies that are that absolutely hot. They must have discovered silicone during the 17the century--lol

Cheers

[dessa14]

i loved playing the original, it think if it tried to look realistic it would explode your brain, anyway realism is for sims and FPS not for adventure strategy games.
yeah i used to go around with two frigates in a fleet and about 100 galleons (I always used to follow the treasure fleet around and pick off a whole heap)
i'm disappointed about the removal of the landing, but it was generally a giant PIA trying to land enough troops to win a battle, you'd need a war galleon to carry the amount of men needed, and then you would have to be good to avoid being hammered.
thanks,
dessa

[frogbeastegg]

Sounding good. I have never played the original; sadly I found out about it a few years after its release and by that point it was impossible to find.

I saw in one review that your character ages, and as he gets older he gets less agile, weaker etc. True? I'm not sure I want to end up as Creak-knees the Pirate limping around battle with my deluxe Zimmer frame with frame mounted mini cannon.

[dessa14]

yes you do get older and such, but i don't know if you get weaker, it just means that you can't handle getting stranded as much, and if you die then the game is wasted for your ranking.
thanks,
dessa

[Kraxis]

I still preferred the Fast Galleon over the Frigate, it just felt like it could endure more punishment while being as fast and maneuverable (they were the same size, 100 tons capacity).

But I meant Early as in the earlier periods, not early in a career. As far as I remember there weren't any Frigates in the 1560, 1600 and 1620 periods perhaps even later.

So now the ships within the classes are different? Nice.
So you can still have one or two primary fighters (ships) and then a whole fleet of transports to carry goods and troops?

[Navaros]

i have some questions:

1. is ship vs. ship combat done better in Pirates of the Carribean?

2. can you customize the appearance of your pirate? i didn't really like the look of the pirate shown in the screenshots

3. can you have kids to continue the game after your first pirate dies of old age, or do you have to start over from scratch?

4. are there different endings to the game?

5. do you get to choose which girl to court or is it always the same one every game?

[Spino]

I LOVE the modern remake of Pirates! It's great! It's as addictive as the original and is extremely well polished. While it can be really repetitive it is packed with tons of little details make the game really fun and keep you playing into the wee hours of the night.

Since Forward Observer pretty much covered the bases in his review i'll touch on the negative aspects of Pirates!

My problems with the game are the same that I had with the original; it's simply too easy to kick ass with a smaller ship, even on the harder difficulty levels. The smaller vessels can literally sail circles around the bigger ships and when sufficiently upgraded they become absolute terrors. True, a few good hits from a larger vessel can really ruin your day but if you know what you're doing those moments are few and far between. Not that I haven't had my ass handed to me on a plate now and again but I feel that I'm not working too hard to achieve victory in the face of considerable odds. Unless my memory betrays me I don't recall things being this imbalanced in the original. I do remember the smaller vessels being preferable to the larger ones but I recall Barques having the best mix of nimbleness, toughness and firepower. With the remake if you have a good grasp of tactics and using the wind to your advantage it makes no sense to get anything bigger than a sloop. With a sloop (especially the upgraded variety) you can avoid enemy broadsides with ease. It's somewhat ridiculous actually.

The AI is ok, but in combat larger enemy vessels will too often trade a favorable course and wind to chase a smaller, quicker vessel even though it is an exercise in futility and even though you were the one to initiate hostilities!

The good news is you can still command a sizeable fleet of ships but unlike the original game's 'one ship icon represents my entire fleet' approach now each vessel in your fleet is represented on the strategic map. It's an impressive sight to have an entire fleet flying the skull and crossbones pouncing on a treasure fleet. However this also means that every single vessel in your flotilla is vulnerable to harrassing fire from nearby vessels and forts on the strategic map. This really forces you to keep an eye on those battered prize vessels you are escorting to the nearest port. It's a most welcome addition to the game.

The Ships:

While there is a very nice selection of ships to choose from I wish there were more!

I never go for Galleons, never. They are absolute sloths in anything but the most favorable winds. Bah!

Frigates are great if you want tons of firepower with modest maneuverability. I 'acquired' both a frigate and a large frigate by catching Henry Morgan and some other pirate. They're fun if you want some good old toe to toe broadside fun but personally I felt they made better cargo haulers and I gladly sold them off before dividing the plunder. I'll take a smaller vessel over the bigger ones anyday.

I like Barques, especially the Ocean Barque. In the absence of a Royal or War Sloop I use one as my primary vessel. I believe 16 cannons is the most an Ocean Barque can handle (have to check the manual on that). Barques make excellent secondary cargo haulers in a pirate fleet as they have shallow drafts and can haul ass when pressed and like sloops can make good headway even in unfavorable winds.

Sloops are the best. Without a doubt the best ship in the game is a Royal Sloop, preferably with the following upgrades; Cotton Sails for greater speed, Copper Plating for improved turning times and Chain Shot for crippling an enemy vessel's sails. Sloops are already fast and nimble but those upgrades will make one move like Flipper on crack. Chain shot will allow you to cripple most vessels without sending them to the deep and most will gladly hoist a white flag once they've been immobilized. But the real kicker is that a Royal Sloop can handle 20 guns instead of 16, which gives it a considerable advantage over barques and makes it an absolute terror in capable hands. With the Triple Hammock upgrade you can easily have more than 100 sailors on board which will make your 20 cannons reload and fire in no time at all. I always keep at least 22 guns in my inventory at all times in case I lose a few in combat.

I've also noticed that (at least in my current campaign) that there are too many buried treasures and captive relative quests in the same area! I've found no less than three or four buried pirate treasures near the same town! It's a bit too common to be coincidental.

[Nelson]

I played all day Thursday, only taking meals and bathroom breaks. When I finally went to bed it was 4 AM Friday morning.

I hope you sent the steward down to the galley for some turkey!

I'm glad you like Pirates! so much, FO. It is one of only a handful of games that I ever played from sunset to sunrise and my computer game playing days go back to Star Trek on a mainframe in the 70s!

Now, if someone would only re-make Red Baron 3D and Panzer Commander, I would be a happy camper.

Me too. We need a good WWI flight sim and a WWII tank sim in the worst way. I would add Task Force 1942 to the list.

[Kraellin]

ah, Nelson.... i had no idea! Trek on mainframes! my first foyer into the realm of computer gaming.... also on mainframes in the early 70's :) now, did you ever play the one in which you played as an alien race in a space ship? you played against about 3 or 4 AI players, all of different races and all having different ship capabilities. i normally played the one in which you had 'torpedoes' and you had to calculate the firing vectors in your head in simulated 3d. drive me nuts a few times :)

sorry, that was off-topic. we now return you to our regularly scheduled programming.

K.

[Kraxis]

Ah yes Sloops were possibly one of the most fun ships. But in old Pirates! it simply didn't have the punch to take on Galleons, and it would be ruined from a single broadside. So at least that has been remembered. But it is sad to find out you can cram 100 men onto one, as that was also a factor to keep in mind.

[nokhor]

i remember capturing war galleons with a pinnace? in the original pirates. it was extremely difficult. if you got broadsided once, you were done. you had to board it from behind and then you'd be heavily outnumbered and had to defeat the enemy captain quickly or your troops would all be killed. that was the most nerve wracking part of that game.

[Spino]

i remember capturing war galleons with a pinnace? in the original pirates. it was extremely difficult. if you got broadsided once, you were done. you had to board it from behind and then you'd be heavily outnumbered and had to defeat the enemy captain quickly or your troops would all be killed. that was the most nerve wracking part of that game.

Well nothing has changed in the new Pirates! It's still nerve wracking if you board a large vessel and your crew is seriously outnumbered. You have to be virtually flawless in your duel with the enemy captain so as to outpace your crew losses. The only difference is that in the new Pirates! the Triple Hammock ship upgrade allows smaller vessels to carry much larger crews, thus improving their odds in ship boarding actions.

FYI, when battling a ship belonging to another pirate or villain do NOT think that the white flag means you win and hostilities are over. I learned this the hard way when I pummeled Baron Raymondo's galleon into submission. As I drew my ship along side to take it as a prize I got the enemy captain surrenders screen followed by a custom pirate/villain impending duel animation. Basically regardless of whether you beat them in battle you still have to cross blades with pirates and villains in order to defeat them. However, the duels with pirates & villains following a successful sea battle seem to be easier than usual, at least that has been my experience. So once a pirate or villain vessel raises the white flag be sure to keep pounding them with grapeshot to knock their crew numbers down to a more manageable levels.

On another note I'm not sure what happens if you hit a villain's powder magazine during combat thus blasting his vessel into oblivion or simply damage its hull to the point where the ship breaks up and sinks. Do you still get a confession from the villain and a piece of the map that leads to a lost relative?

[LordTed]

The new pirates sounds really good. Played the old one on the Amiga 600. What are the system specs needed to play it?

[Blodrast]

sorry to be slightly OT-ish, but Nelson and Forward Observer, if by "Panzer Commander" you were referring to SSI's Panzer General, then there kinda is a kind of remake.
I say "kinda" because it's not actually a remake with spiffier graphics, but it's just porting the old PG to Windows. Which, however, makes a lot of difference. You have a much much improved UI, some movies, and I'm not sure what else (haven't had time to play aronud with it). But believe me, the UI makes a lot of difference in intself.
I'm not sure if graphics are "better"; however, there is probably a bit of extra stuff in there besides the short movies, because the game is around 100 MB, as opposed to the 12MB or so that the DOS one occupied...

So if this is not what you're looking for, sorry to waste your time reading this.

Btw, thanks for the nice Pirates! reviews, everybody.
(it also has a windows version, fyi).

[Kraellin]

blodrast,

you have a link to that updated port of panzer general? i played that one online a bit and would like to see the update.

K.

[Blodrast]

aye, and what a link.

[snip]

and for all of you nostalgic guys out there, who are reminiscing about the "good ol' times" and games that meant a heck of a lot to you (yeah, I'm among you), you should definitely check out the underdogs site ([snip]).
They have huge loads of abandonware, it's pure gold.
IIRC, you can find the Pirates! God for Windows that I mentioned in my earlier post there as well.

And before anyone raises any legal or moral issues, from what I've been able to tell they only host abandonware games, i.e. games that are no longer on shelves or that the companies are no longer selling anyway. You will notice that even though they do have pages for some more recent games, they do not host them, but instead point you to amazon or EBgames or the developer's/publisher's site where you can _buy_ them.
So their content is legal, as far as I (as a non-specialist-in-copyright-issues) can tell.

Enjoy.



Abandonware is a tricky issue; the legal opinion is that unless the copyright holders release the game for download themselves then it is piracy. Some developers get very upset by abandonware.

[nokhor]

somebody needs to start a grognards old games thread. did any of you ever play viking kingdoms of england? it was an amiga strategy game that was very good. it included ireland, norway and iceland. and castles were king in that game. a few bowmen in a castle could stand up to 10 times their number if the attackers didn't have catapults. sorry for being ot.

[Kraellin]

thanks blodrast,

i shld have known :)

K.