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Thread: The Finno Ugrian Mongols were the inspiration for the ELVES.

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    Member Member Grim's Avatar
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    Well well well, look who's posted his FIRST USEFULL post. I knew of Beowulf and the rune-singers of Finland, but I was happy to find out that there is still one living.
    So the dwarves's names are derived from mythological poems from Iceland (Edda) the elves's tongue from Finland, and the main plot of resisting temptation from Sir Gauvin (Gawain) amongst other.
    This link also note the similarities between languages today and in LOtR:
    Saruman: old anglo-saxon roots -> searu- or cunning, treachery.
    Sauron: Linked with old norse or Icelandic origins for Uncleanness
    Mordor: old english ->morthor for murder (of course)
    Middle-earth: old english in poetics for the name of the earth itself and the battleground between the forces of good and evil.

    BTW does this belong in OT ???

    ------------------
    "Je vous repondrai par la bouche de mes canons"
    -Frontenac
    (I will answer you with the blast of my canons)
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    "Je vous repondrai par la bouche de mes canons"
    -Frontenac
    (I will answer you with the blast of my canons)
    -Trad. libre

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    The Elves are based off the Finno Ugrian peoples from the Steppes of MONGOLIA.

    I kneel before the GENGHIS KHAN.

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    The Black Senior Member Papewaio's Avatar
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    Tolkein had a fascination with northen european mythology and languages. He based his languages on the european tongues.

    In the link that you so helpfully provided they say he based the LoTR on Finnish language and lengend.

    How can you make the leap from Scandinavian people to Mongolian people?

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    Member Member CEWest's Avatar
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    Don't tempt him...
    "I'm telling you, Kakizaki, there is a man living in my toilet!"
    "I'm sure there is, Tono, now let's go a little lighter on the sake next time, okay?"


    - Uesugi Kenshin and Kakizaki Kageie, 1578

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    Senior Member Senior Member Zen Blade's Avatar
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    Not a bad post Temujin.

    But, don't let that go to your head.
    Thanks for posting the link


    -Zen Blade

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    Member Member Dionysus's Avatar
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    Quote The Elves are based off the Finno Ugrian peoples from the Steppes of MONGOLIA.[/QUOTE]

    The Elves don't even look slightly Asiatic. They have blonde hair, blue eyes, they're tall and fair. They are based on WHITE PEOPLE from SCANDINAVIA.

    Yes, their language is based mostly on the Finnish agglunative grammar but there are also Latin, Welsh and Greek influences.


    [This message has been edited by Dionysus (edited 01-02-2002).]

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    Senior Member Senior Member Zen Blade's Avatar
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    Actually,

    A VERY common misperception about elves is Blonde hair+ Blue Eyes...

    If you read the Silmarillion you will find that different traints vary, depending on the group. Of the Noldor (one group of Elves... Galadriel is one such Elf), only one specific line/family has golden/blonde hair.
    Amongst the more common Wood Elves and other... "dark" elves I am not sure about the ratios....

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    Member Member Anssi Hakkinen's Avatar
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    The fabled similarities between Finnish and Quenya (High Elvish) are detectable only through philological analysis. Far more Welsh and Old English influence can be seen, and even more so in Sindarin - but then again, I don't really know Welsh.

    Zen_Blade-sama is quite right about the Elvish complexion / hair color thing.

    Finns are not Scandinavians though, but Finno-Ugrics, related to the Estonians, Hungarians and several obscure tribes in Central Russia along the River Volga. Not Germanic like the Swedes, Norwegians etc., but not really Asians either - and certainly not from "the Steppes of MONGOLIA". (Is Temujin secretly the latest incarnation of ALLCAPS?)

    ------------------
    "The right use of the sword is that it should subdue the barbarians while lying gleaming in its scabbard. If it leaves its sheath it cannot be said to be used rightly."
    - Tokugawa Ieyasu: Legacy
    "It is a good viewpoint to see the world as a dream. When you have something like a nightmare, you will wake up and tell yourself that it was only a dream. It is said that the world we live in is not a bit different from this".
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    The Black Senior Member Papewaio's Avatar
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    So Elvish is based more on Welsh then Finnish. Cool

    I'm actually ethnic Welsh/Swedish/English or Anglo-Saxon/Celtic/Scandiavian. I've got dark blonde/brown hair green/hazel eyes. One of my brothers has auburn hair and light hazel eyes and the third is a blue eyed light blond aryan with dark eyebrows [All characteristics of our Great Grandfathers].

    So I suppose the last is the typical elf.

    And since my girlfriend is Chinese but people mistake her for Japanese or Korean [Mongolian] and we do not look anything alike it would seem that the assumption that elves looking like mongolians when Tolkein bases them on Scandinavians is in the parlance of Aus; Bulldust!

    Mind you I have always imagined D&D elves to be blond Eurasians...


    ------------------
    Never start a land war in Asia
    Never bet with a Scilian when death is on the line
    Never expect anything more then sarcasm from an Australian
    Our genes maybe in the basement but it does not stop us chosing our point of view from the top.
    Quote Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat
    Pape for global overlord!!
    Quote Originally Posted by English assassin
    Squid sources report that scientists taste "sort of like chicken"
    Quote Originally Posted by frogbeastegg View Post
    The rest is either as average as advertised or, in the case of the missionary, disappointing.

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    Member Member Shoko's Avatar
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    Learn something new everyday..Thxs

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    Clan Kenchikuka

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    The elves are based off the Finno Ugric peoples. These ancient tribes ORIGINATED from the Mongolian steppes. It doesn't matter what you say, you cannot change the facts. For in the end all shall kneel before XANADU.

    GLORY TO THE EMPIRE OF THE DRAGON.

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    Senior Member Senior Member Red Peasant's Avatar
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    I am an african as all peoples came originally from the Dark Continent, even finno-ungrian-mongol-whatever-you-racist-twat no-marks like you.

    What is the point of all this irritating, ludicrous bollocks you keep spouting?

    Humph, maybe that'll close this one as well
    ------------------
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    --Ovid
    (The drop hollows the stone not by force but by dripping often)

    [This message has been edited by Red Peasant (edited 01-07-2002).]
    Dum spiro spero

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  14. #14

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    Red Peasant, all of western Europe is africa. Like egypt, you are destined for an existence of mediocrity and stupidity.
    http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/20...ent_108008.htm

    In the end all shall kneel before the standards of KHAN.

    GLORY TO THE EMPIRE OF THE DRAGON

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    The Black Senior Member Papewaio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by TemujinForever:
    Red Peasant, all of western Europe is africa. Like egypt, you are destined for an existence of mediocrity and stupidity.
    http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/20...ent_108008.htm

    [/QUOTE]

    1) They havn't confirmed the oldest dates of the rest of the excavations so it is still a case of Africa being the cradle of homo sapiens sapiens

    2) Do you actually have a thing agianst Africans?

    3) Do you actually believe that Mongolians are superior?

    4) Evolution is a series of dead ends as well as advances, it generally creates populations that are most suited to survival in their current environment. Having said that. More evolved individuals tend to be the latest. So the craddle in Asia makes them the least [note this is a flawed arguement by itself, it serves mearly to show that being the cradle does not make it the highest evolution of humanity].

    5) The genetic variations within any group of humans is greater then the medium between any group. The vast number of differences between different groups is primarily visual superficial variants. The greatest group difference in humanity is not 'racial' but sexual. There is a far greater difference between male and female then African to Asian.

    6) I'm not arguing with an idiot. I'm trying to keep the troll viewing public informed.

    [This message has been edited by Papewaio (edited 01-09-2002).]

    7) As for the statement about Eygpt it is either a work of brillant irony worthy of getting you into Aus or you fail to realise the vast significance Eygpt has had on the agricultural social development on the western world.

    [This message has been edited by Papewaio (edited 01-09-2002).]
    Our genes maybe in the basement but it does not stop us chosing our point of view from the top.
    Quote Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat
    Pape for global overlord!!
    Quote Originally Posted by English assassin
    Squid sources report that scientists taste "sort of like chicken"
    Quote Originally Posted by frogbeastegg View Post
    The rest is either as average as advertised or, in the case of the missionary, disappointing.

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    Senior Member Senior Member Red Peasant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by TemujinForever:
    Like egypt, you are destined for an existence of mediocrity and stupidity. [/QUOTE]

    Gotta laugh at that one! Apart from organising an efficient killing machine of an army for a very short period in history (now ain't that original!), just what did the Mongols do?! They were a dead end, a nihilistic force contributing nothing of lasting social, cultural, political or artistic worth and value to the human race. They did manage to leech onto the Chinese for a while and so imbibe a little civilisation, but it was short-lived and they reverted to type....and oblivion. Get over it, the rest of us have!

    ------------------
    "Gutta cavat lapidem non vi sed saepe cadendo"
    --Ovid
    (The drop hollows the stone not by force but by dripping often)
    Dum spiro spero

    A great many people think they are thinking when they are really rearranging their prejudices.
    - William James

  17. #17

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    Papewaio, there are 1.5 billion shoalin monks ready to colonize Australia.

    As Jiang would say

    All your blondes are belong to us.

  18. #18
    The Black Senior Member Papewaio's Avatar
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    Very cutting post TF I am so worried about Aus being invaded I am inventing a time machine to put Aus back to the 1950's. Damn the Liberal party beat me to it...

    Quote Originally posted by TemujinForever:
    Papewaio, there are 1.5 billion shoalin monks ready to colonize Australia.
    [/QUOTE]

    Interesting I thought there was only about 1.3 billion chinese in mainland china... so not only is there 200 million more (which is probable given exponential population growth) but the entire population is now celibate martial artists, would help the worlds over population crisis.

    Now how do the shaolin fit in with the mongols... they came to prominence defending a king... were they defending him from a mongol army?

    Quote Originally posted by TemujinForever:
    As Jiang would say

    All your blondes are belong to us. [/B][/QUOTE]

    My Taiwanese girlfriend says similar things to me

    ------------------
    Never start a land war in Asia
    Never bet with a Scilian when death is on the line
    Never expect anything more then sarcasm from an Australian
    Our genes maybe in the basement but it does not stop us chosing our point of view from the top.
    Quote Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat
    Pape for global overlord!!
    Quote Originally Posted by English assassin
    Squid sources report that scientists taste "sort of like chicken"
    Quote Originally Posted by frogbeastegg View Post
    The rest is either as average as advertised or, in the case of the missionary, disappointing.

  19. #19
    Senior Member Senior Member Zen Blade's Avatar
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    This is stupid.
    So... I am going to close this now.
    It is a brewing flame war and there have already been INSULTS.

    BTW, EVERYONE who posted AFTER Shoko (but not including Shoko) should consider themselves warned by me.

    TF b/c you don't ever learn how to discuss without insults.

    EVERYONE ELSE, b/c you haven't learned that the best way to deal with TF is to IGNORE HIM.

    anyone have a problem with this, make a post or talk to Anssi, otherwise, I don't expect to hear about this again. We have gone over TF's racism before.

    -Zen Blade

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