Thank You, Gregoshi for existing! I was a little surprised to find people with attitude on this forum. I've only heard about people being rude in here, but never experienced it before. That kind of friendly environment keeps the forum running and assures people would come back day after day after day here. I just realized that without people like you, Gregoshi, I probably wouldn't be visiting this site much.
You are right, I was a tad ticked off. I kind of expected it, that's why I stated in my previous post that I am not trying to start a war with a Greek on here. I don't judge people by their skin color, national origin or ethnic background but I have had problems with Greeks on other forums, when it comes to history. Everyone is entitled to being "nationalistic", being proud of your national background, but not when it comes down to dising other people and expressing supperiority. Just a few examples from another forum:
"There are as many logical fallacies in your answer as sentences. The fact that you live in U.S. " and interact with english speaking people every day" does not make you an expert. A mexican servant in San Diego Ca. interacts equally well with english speaking people every day but she hardly qualifies as an expert of English. Besides, in a public forum you should avoid idiomatic phrases, as this can give rise to misunderstandings.
Your way of arguing discloses shortcomings in your education. Get a library card and do some basic reading. A good place to start is Aristotle, some dialogues of Plato ..., unless you are mathematically inclined. In that case start with Euclid´s Elements. Definitions, Axioms, Theorems and most of all Proofs!
A cource in "Critical Thinking" can be beneficial.
The content of the last paragraph is composed as to tease you, since it is obvious that you hate Greece. You hope that the Greek triumph will be forgotten after 12 years. You remember the triumph(?) of Bulgaria 10 years ago (Sweden-Bulgaria 4-0) for the third place! Three defeats in Euro2004! How come you still remember Bulgaria and you hope you will forget Greece after 12 years? Unfortunately for you Greece is surrounding you from everywhere! Democracy, Science, Art, and all the good things!
By the way, Greece will be in Germany in the Conferatios Cup June 2005 already! And play against Brazil!"
And another one:
"I am not trying to impose anything on you. But defending ome´s ideas is a democratic right and of cource I will try to persuade you that I am right! This is still democracy. You might have a different idea about what democracy is. After all living right now in U.S.A. might give you wrong signals about what democracy is.
Another kind of argument used quite often is the "appeal to authority". In talking about philosophy for example you can state what Aristotle said. This is called appeal to authority. I appealed to the authority of Ola Andersson (which you unfortunately cannot check) and www.goal.com (which you can check). Of cource there are the opinions of journalists mostly and not exactly authorities. But you appealed to your feelings, and wrong ideas about Balkan being homogeneous in its Football Culture. It is totally wrong. Balkan has many different schools of football. There are still some similarities between Croatian and the other ex-yugoslavian teams, but they are disappearing. Greek football had no school. Every new national coach (they change very often) had his own ideas and was not building upon anything. Until Otto Rehhagel came. He created a team that employed partially man-to-man marking, that was considered outmoded football. Looking at the results especially at Euro2004, (Pauleta was swept out By Kapsis twice, Baros the first scorer dissapeared when he was marked by Seitarides, etc) he was justified. But the man-to-man marking of the star players of the opponent was combined by changing from defence to attack very fast. And there was the main weapon of the Rehhagel team. So Greek football at national level has ethnic greeks as players but it is Rehhagel´s school. Not German! Nor anything else. Just Rehhagel. South American Football can be of various schools. And even different periods of e.g. Argentinian football are easily discernible. Talking about Balkan football is an almost empty subject!
You have to distinguish between Greek as an ethnic term and Greek as a cultural type of person, that loves Democracy, Critical Thinking, Science, Sports, Art, Politics, Theatre. I have met ethnic Greeks which were more Turkish than Turks and Swedes that were more Greeks than Greeks. Any other combination may be valid since there are enough persons travelling all over the world, reading books, seeing television series etc. "
And this is not even related to history. It gets a lot uglier then. That said, I have nothing against Greeks and I've made friends with Greeks before. We just have to remember to be respectful of each other.
On your post, BP,
1. Ever heard of Odessa, TX or Naples, FL? Confused? Well, my point is there were more than one towns with the name Apollonia. One was on the Black Sea coast, and there is one in Asia Minor in addition to the one in present day Albania.
This is straight from a basic search from Wikipedia:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apolonia
There have been several places called Apollonia:
An ancient Roman city in Illyria near to the sea and the river Vjosa, 12 km from Fier, Albania. Apollonia was a local hub for travelers and tradesmen, and a center of learning. The emperor Augustus had studied there as a youth.
A town in Macedonia alongst the Via Egnatia, midway on route from Thessalonica and Amphipolis.
A town in Thrace on the shore of the Black Sea.
A fort or castle near to Naupactus.
A sea port town in Northern Sicily.
A town astride the river Rhyndacus in Bithynia next to the lake Apolloniatis.
The birthplace of Eratosthenes in Cyrenaica within the harbour of Cyrene. One of the five towns forming the Libyan Pentapolis.
A town of Pisidia in which fragments of a copy of the Res Gestae Divi Augusti were found.
2. There is no point discussing the geographical term "between Don and Danube" as you can see that region clearly on the map. Of course back then the idea of national borders like we have today was far from people's minds. Still, I don't believe it is such a broad term. And Moesia was involved, because I had to give the point to where the Bulgars migrated to : from the area between the rivers Don (southern Ukraine) and the Danube delta (today's border between Romania, Moldavia and Ukraine) to Moesia (south of the Danube river in present day Bulgaria). It is completely useless to argue about this info as it is not a matter of oppinion but geographical and historical facts. Yet if you can find some new info that I've totally missed, I'd be intrigued to learn about it.
3.The Dacians, Getae and Illyrians are all Thracians. There are however some scholars that argue the origin of the Illyrians. On that we can discus in civilized manner. I'd appraciate it if you can present me a good source that argues your point.
4. Philip of Macedon ruled over Thracia which is a geographical term. Do not confuse Thracia with where the Thracians lived. As Herodotus said, the Thracians were numerous and spread from Asia Minor to the Carpathians. The region of Thrace is situated south of the Balkan mountains in presnt day Bulgaria, Turkey and Greece.
I tried not to offend anyone, so I hope we can continue this thread in a civil manner and learn some more interesting facts.
Also do appreciate when people do research before making a statement. It means they cared about what they said, because they took the time to do research. If you have respect, you'd do the same before arguing what's wrong and what not.
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