So what happened to RTWs factions in history?

[Kraxis]

Rosa, I think you are going a bit hard at him now...
You seem to think that he implies that only Greeks are biased, yet you quote him where he says everyone does it in the Balkans.

Greeks are entitled to read history the way it would make them feel proud of themselves and omit the emberassing or shameful moments. That is their right. In fact all the nations on the Balkans are like that, and that's why it is the backyard of Europe.

Now he does mention the Greeks as doing it, but he then says that he finds everyone to do it... That he mentions the Greeks specifically it because he was talking about Greek perception and his own perception. That might be wrong to do, but I think he is fair here... And I'm Danish coming into this with no bias at all.
And no, history isn't an exact science. We have facts, but how we interpret those facts change from generation to generation, some get revived again. History is a flowing science (for the lack of a better word), the pursuit of the truth (which existed) is nigh impossible. For instance Positivism was quite popular with ist views in the 20's and 30's and 50's, then it vanished while Marxism too over, now it is back in a refined form that has been mixed with Hermeneutics. All of those are different from each other, and their conclusion are all different, yet they are 'true' seen in the context of what would be the logical evolution of events for that particular theory.

It is highly unlikely that we will ever find the truth, and if we do it will soon vanish beneath yet another theory. That is why history will never be an exactl science (unless some physicist invents a machine for timetravel).

[BalkanTourist]

I couldn't have said it better, Kraxis. Let's just all get along, ok? No point in attacking people on here. I did say, I had Greek friends, so don't make it look like I am out there to get y'all. People all over Europe forget grudges and erase borders. Only in the Balkans people still hate each other. It is such a pitty!

[Byzantine Prince]

Hehe, if you go to the Balkans you'll see why that is. People are still in the mind set of the 1800's. The time that the Ottomans started leaving and they grabbed whatever they could before their neighbour would.

So yeah, the Balkans have always been called the pouderkeg of Europe. I dont' think that will ever change.

Btw I have a Bulgarian friend too.

[Rosacrux redux]

Kraxis, I've replied to you in PM - no need to further hijack this thread - it has strayed faaaaar away from the OP.

A little remark, though:Balkan people are not the only Europeans hating eachother. Albanians hate Greeks and the former Yugos do hate eachother (and everybody in the region despises Albanians) but that's it. In the rest of Europe: Try Irish and English? English and Scottish? Ex-Warshawers and Russians? Basque and Spanish? Tyrolians and Austrians? Nationalistic hate, in one form or another, is present everywhere... not only Europe. I've heard some extremely racist and hate-loaded comments on US radiostations about Arabs, Mexicans (those in particular) and others. And I am not even touching South America, Africa and Asia...

Nutcases exist all over, methinks.

I seize now... no more hijacking this thread, I promise. Any issues, please bring on PM.

[econ21]

Some very interesting on-topic responses to this thread on the first page - thanks to those who contributed! The off-topic ones are also interesting, although perhaps in a train-wreck fascination kind of way.

To try to counter the Balkan pessimism, I would just say that national animosities can fade, sometimes surprisingly quickly. England and France may be an old example. Relations between the former Axis countries and their WW2 opponents a somewhat more recent one. Rosacrux, as an English person, I don't think it's true to say hatred exists between the English and either the Irish or the Scots. I've never seen evidence of it, anyway. Local animosities in Northern Ireland are worse than those in most of the Balkans, it's true, but at least the fighting has stopped. My impression is that people from the Republic of Ireland and mainland Britain made their peace some time ago. The Scots seem quite content to be ruling England from No. 10 and No. 11 Downing Street, while the English don't notice.

[The_Emperor]

I am not sure if any of you have seen "Britain AD" when it was on...

Essentially it shows a different theory of what happened during the so-called "Dark Ages" in Britain following the Roman withdrawl.

The Archeologist who presented it took the view that there is little or no archeological evidence of a mass-invasion from the continent. Essentially he provides a compelling argument that

a) Britain didn't degenerate into chaos following the Roman departure.
b) Christianity survived on in Britain.
c) The Anglo Saxon mass-invasion never happened, (and was more of an importing of ideas and culture through trade)

He cites archeological evidence for each point. Such as the discovery of a shipwreck that had artifacts and treasure on board from Byzantium, and the expansion of some Roman fortifications (such as parts of hadrian's wall) after they went.

And the lack of archeological evidence of a mass-conquest of present day England. He points to the anglo-saxon invasion myth as comming about as a result of powerful catholic church figures who had an agenda, and an English need to prove their historical racial superiority over their neighbors.

[Byzantine Prince]

Hi Emperor. I have to disagree with you on this.

a) Britain didn't degenerate into chaos following the Roman departure. ?True? MAybe, we don't really know.
b) Christianity survived on in Britain. True
c) The Anglo Saxon mass-invasion never happened, (and was more of an importing of ideas and culture through trade) Untrue

The Anglo Saxons did for sure invade England. Here's some proof:

In the 5th and 6th centuries ad , after the withdrawal of the Romans, many Britons (Celtic natives of Britain), in flight from the Teutonic invaders of their homeland, took refuge in the northwestern part of Armorica. They gave the region its present name. The Britons (later called Bretons) gradually converted the Armorican Celts, then mainly pagans, to Christianity.
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