Things in Japan & Japanese I don\'t like...

[jskirwin@yahoo.com]

Allright, in order to maintain the balance of the Wa (or Tao), here's the counterpart to my topic "Why I Like Japan & Things Japanese"

1. The Japanese government (including the bureaucracy) - How such a people earned the god-awful mess that passes for a democracy in that country is beyond me. The entire gov't - from lowly local paper-shuffler to the PM himself - should be deported someplace where it can't do any more damage... like Pyongyang.

2. Right Wingers - Though the Japanese will tell you that no one pays attention to them, these guys are truly scary. Imagine a parade of Timothy McVeighs in snappy uniforms and SUVs.

3. Japanese navel-gazing. All nationalities do this to some extent, so it's a question of degree. But come on! It's 2001! The world is a scary place but geez, Aum Shinri Kyo was a bunch of local boys - not foreign terrorists.

4. Noise - Japan is the noisiest country I've ever visited. There are loudspeakers at the Zen temple Ryoanji which blast taped info over and over again making it impossible to simply sit and contemplate the garden. Ditto the Enryakuji at Hiei. There are loudspeakers blasting advertisements in the freaking forest for chrissakes!

5. Bosozoku - the REAL reason rifles are outlawed in Japan. These guys almost made my "Like" list because they helped my innate creativity through the imagining of every detail of their demise at 4 am .

6. Puke - it's everywhere you want to be on Sunday mornings.

7. Rori-con (Lolita complex) -eeeewww! I just don't get it. Nope. Nope. Nope.

8. Maza-con (Oedipus complex) - eeeewww! See #7 above

9. Junior high-schoolers - rude as hell to everyone.

10. Suicide by train - saw one of these for myself. Pretty pathetic to make your last statement of life a 10 minute inconvenience to a couple thousand bleary-eyed commuters.

11. Oyaa-san (landlords) - just come out and say that you are racist and would prefer to fleece Japanese instead of foreigners. Don't pretend that you are "International" while you rent to 100% Japanese only.

12. Key-money - $10,000 bribe for this? Nice tattoos by the way...



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I take refuge in the Buddha.

[Brown Wolf]

Don't forget Japan's fear of non-japanese

lol

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[Gothmog]

Some seem to have really twisted attitude toward sex, and they even developed a "Tao" for that, called Erotic Tao, maybe?

That body sushi thing ... making girls lying on ice so that men could use chopsticks to pick up and eat whatever is placed on their naked body ... So twisted that it almost makes me laugh ...

Japanese do have a sense of humor and wild imagination, though sometimes in a really goofy kind of way.

[Tachikaze]

Japanese children are brought up great until aged seven. They learn many skills, including musical instruments and crafts. They behave well when necessary, and have a lot of freedom to play.

Many of the Japanese I know were torn from this ideal childhood to become overworked, fearful people with low self-esteem (to say the least), and disgust for everything their secondary school experiences represented. They resist learning. I can't tell you how many times I have begun a discussion on a social, scientific, or historical topic, and the Japanese will say, "I don't need to know that." Curiousity has been schooled out of them.

If there is a conflict, they usually blame themselves, even if they obviously weren't at fault. I don't mean they do it to be polite; I mean they really internalize it.

Most of the Japanese women I know hate Japanese men. They feel they are weak and selfish. To tell you the truth, the men feel the same way about the women. Is this any way for a society to be?

As far as sex, I'm ambivilent. I think the West, with its notion of sex as a sin, deeply imbedded in the subconscious if not obvious, has a pretty twisted view. The Japanese have a more-sane acceptance of sex as a natural thing. I've known Western and Japanese women, and the Japanese are usually more at ease and have less issues about sex.

However, Japanese do take things to extremes. Some of the stories about drunken parties they have go way beyond rorikon and mazacon. The body sushi is only the tip of the ice berg. Things can get pretty violent or scatalogical, and that's as far as I will go with that.

They drink to excess because they are repressed all day long. They must have an outlet to express what's building inside them. Many Japanese truly need the alcohol to become human again. Even then, they become wild to extremes, and feel justified in almost any action while drunk, including public group rape in a bar. Their dependence on substance abuse is probably the biggest shame of their society.

[TemujinForever]

*Most of the Japanese women I know hate Japanese men. They feel they are weak and selfish. To tell you the truth, the men feel the same way about the women. Is this any way for a society to be?*

LoL. Why don't you take a look at western society for a change. by 2050 western europe is gonna be neo-africa.

[Tachikaze]

Great. Black is beautiful!

[BakaGaijin]

Damn crackas be messin' wit ma Chi, yo.

Err... *cough* Excuse me. By the way, what's a bosozuku?

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Disappear into the Darkness!!

[Koga No Goshi]

Too damn crowded.

My two cents.

Growing up in LA, which has a big population, but is spread out over a huge area, and then moving to the northern Bay Area of California for college, I experienced sort of a "claustrophobia culture shock." I despised not being able to park ANYWHERE, and no matter what time of day you get on the freeway, you will sit in gridlock, and the buildings are all packed so tight with so little open space that very often grocery stores don't even have parking lots and restaurants only very rarely have drive thru's. I know Japan is 100x worse, that's probably the single biggest dread I have about going to live there for a year.



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Koga no Goshi

"Hokusai"
Now as a spirit
I shall roam
the summer fields.

[whyidie]

Quote Originally posted by Koga No Goshi:
Too damn crowded.

My two cents.

Growing up in LA, which has a big population, but is spread out over a huge area, and then moving to the northern Bay Area of California for college, I experienced sort of a "claustrophobia culture shock." I despised not being able to park ANYWHERE, and no matter what time of day you get on the freeway, you will sit in gridlock, and the buildings are all packed so tight with so little open space that very often grocery stores don't even have parking lots and restaurants only very rarely have drive thru's.

[/QUOTE]

Thats because you're on the wrong side of the bridge my friend. Come to the dark side...

[Tachikaze]

Isn't the mass transit system good enough to make it a better alternative? I rarely use my car in San Francisco.

Is this off-topic?

In Japan, live in Sapporo. It's not crowded. But it is cold much of the year. Kobe was pretty good, too.

[jskirwin@yahoo.com]

BakaGaijin
Bosozoku: literally "speed-tribes", figuratively assholes on 50cc bikes revving their engines at 4 AM on a workday. While they have been somewhat romanticized in movies like "Akira", "Black Rain" and the novel "Speed Tribes", they are truly nothing more than another petty annoyance in a land filled with annoyances.

[Tachikaze]

They're also famous for sniffing various legal substances that get them high in a land where illicit drugs are difficult to get.

[BakaGaijin]

jskirwin: Ah, I see. We seem to have some persons of similar lack of consideration here in Boston. I don't think they have a name or are grouped at all, though. They're just random jerks on bikes. =/

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Disappear into the Darkness!!

[jskirwin@yahoo.com]

Bakagaijin
Bosozoku in Beantown, eh? I don't think the Orkin Man has a spray for them. I personally recommend something with an infrared scope.

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I take refuge in the Buddha.

[BakaGaijin]

And full auto.

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Disappear into the Darkness!!

[jskirwin@yahoo.com]

More things I don't like:

Garbage everywhere - including on temple grounds.

Burning garbage - even Christine Whitman (from New Jersey & head of the EPA) would gag on the smell of burning plastic

Police protection of Yakuza - imagine the Feds protecting members of La Cosa Nostra.

Sex in Japan - I'm no prude by any stretch but man, the entire nation needs therapy to work some things out...

Natto - looks like snot, feels like snot, but snot tastes better.

Attitudes of Kyoto citizens - sure you weren't bombed and can trace your ancestry back 800 years but that's no excuse for Attitude. Even Kanto people find you stuck up.

Koreans/Eta - Last I checked the Edo period was OVER. I'm sorry, but if you were born in Japan, speak Japanese, eat Japanese and put up with Japanese TV then by god, you're Japanese...

Japanese Environmental movement - a mythical organization which people claim exists but no one has ever met a member of it.

Transport Ministry - Come on, let's sing! "Pave the world! Pave the children! Pave every square inch of our land..."

"Japan is a safety country" - unless you're a pedestrian

Aum Shinri Kyo aka "Aleph" - the Japanese Al-Qaaeda.

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I take refuge in the Buddha.

[Idaho]

Quote Originally posted by jskirwin@yahoo.com:
Police protection of Yakuza - imagine the Feds protecting members of La Cosa Nostra.
[/QUOTE]

Yeah! Could you imagine?!? Heheheheh...

I'm with Tachi on this, we are far more freaked out about sex than they are. Oddly enough I was just telling someone this lunchtime about Japanese knowledge-phobia. The education system must be the root of all Japan's problems.


[This message has been edited by Idaho (edited 11-22-2001).]

[Yagyu Jubei]

The process of getting a working visa!!!
You have to have a job to get one,. You have to have one to get a job!
If you don't have a degree.....you are sol!

[CEWest]

"Koreans/Eta - Last I checked the Edo period was OVER. I'm sorry, but if you were born in Japan, speak Japanese, eat Japanese and put up with Japanese TV then by god, you're Japanese..."

The response I always got to this one was "Demo... Nihonjin ja nai kara..." as if it was completely natural. I could go on for ever about the Japanese ability to objectify, but I'll spare you. Suffice it to say, I can fully see how the atrocities in China could have happened.

PS - the Edo period is over in name only, as you have noticed

[Katasaki Hirojima]

*L* Japan has some problems no?

YOu guys here about how in japan you have to use clear garbage bags so that people can see your not throwing away recycleble goods.

Schooling - Read the first book of Fushigi Yugi, its a japanese manga. YOu'll then get a better feel for the sterilization that gos on in Junior High.

There seems to be a definate polarization of japanese society between the artistic fellows who baulk society and make light of it in there work and the working stiff that has little desire but to keep working. The little worker ants pick up the elites work and read it, the whole notion in the work that they are slaves passing over them like the breeze.

Much of there cinema and comics are fantasy based and very little deal with the world at home. They seem to find escape by placeing themselfs for breif times in another world.

As for sex, they definately are pretty @$$ backwards on the matter. For one, young japanese males have less sex then any other male on the planet(last time I checked). THis is reflected in the media BTW. Yet they don't seem to mind weird sexual games and other things.. They're populace is something like a steam kettle that has one hell of a lid on it.

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"I maintain none the less that Yin-Yang Dualism can be overcome. With sufficent enlightment, we can give substance to any distinction: Mind without body, north without south, pleasure without pain. Renember, enlightment is a function of will power, not of physical strength."- Shang-ji Yang, essays on mind and matter.

[LETRIC]

Quote Originally posted by BakaGaijin:
Damn crackas be messin' wit ma Chi, yo.

[/QUOTE]

This made me laugh til sake n' juice came out my nose.

[CEWest]

This came from a long, wordy article I came across. Interesting in its entirety if you have a lot of time to kill:

"Japan is definitely not a homogeneous society. However numerous or scarce the eight types described above may be (the paper goes into detail on these 'types' - japanese-japanese, japanese raised outside the country, ainu, utterly non-japanese, physically non-japanese born and raised in japan [i.e. koreans] etc.),
the sheer fact of their existence testifies to that. The persistence of the myth of Japanese homogeneity in the face of the facts speaks only to an exceedingly low level of
tolerance on the part of the majority toward elements differing from it.

It may be objected that Japan, if not entirely ethnically homogeneous, is at least considerably more homogeneous than most countries. Certainly if one compares Japan
to the USA, built on the persecution of the Native Americans and subsequently populated by immigrants, or with China, a country which officially recognizes fifty-six
different ethnic groups within its borders, it is obviously a relatively ethnically homogeneous nation.

Note, however, that when people speak of Japan as a homogeneous society, the description nearly always comes with the unstated implication that this is a good
thing.15 The trouble is that when discourse mixes factual description with tacit value judgments, it is all too easy for unconscious intolerance to come into play.
Japanese society will not tolerate ambiguous identity. Faced with a person who shows certain characteristics that differ from the mainstream, Japanese society will
respond in one of two ways: either the ambiguous person will be forced to abandon those characteristics and become as much like a "pure" Japanese as possible; or the
person will be classified simply as "non-Japanese." Further, the full members of Japanese society are defined as "Japanese," and the "non-Japanese" are only permitted to
reside in Japan on the sufferance of the majority. Thus those who are defined as "non-Japanese" are effectively deprived of membership rights in Japanese society. And
so the myth of Japan as a mono-ethnic society continues to persist in the realm of ideas, however far removed it may be from lived reality."

full article here: http://www.kyy.saitama-u.ac.jp/~fukuoka/non-jap.html

[Tachikaze]

Thanks, CEW, I read the whole article. It's good information for people interested in Japan.

[Tac]

Note: The following is MY opinion brought from my observations and experiences while I was in Japan. I was there for 4 months, living with a host family in a house where the grandparents, parents and 2 children (5 & 8 yr old girls) lived.

First of all, I was in Tokyo. My host family lived on the outskirts of the city, the school was in Shinjuku Sancho-me (almost in the center of the city). It was a 2 hour commute (for those who know the Tokyo area, my host family lived waay in the north, going past Shiraoka).

First thing I noticed is that high-schoolers are indeed VERY rude.. and not just to me, to everyone. It wasnt until much later that I learned that this is acceptable, even expected of them.. think of it as what we in the US call "rebellious teen years". Only taken a notch further. I had to restrain myself from decking a 15 yrs old kid's face upside the face for being a jackass to one of the lady students I was with (also a foreigner). Interestingly enough, the young men were rude.. the ladies were just plain cruel. My fellow female students used to get indecent looks or proposals in the train and streets from these boys.. while myself and other male students usually got demeaning comments or "evil eye" looks from the ladies. Of course, this only applies to a SMALL group of young people over there, the great majority of the youth I met and saw were very polite and educated.

2) Courtesy is only extended to the very elderly, the disabled and to their own family members (mainly the father only). I got some VERY surprised reactions when I gave my seat to a mid-age girl in a crowded train (and oh man, japanese trains are so crowded you cant even breathe), the lady was obviously exhausted and getting clobbered at every turn the train made.

Interesting to note also, that giving your seat to a young girl (aka, sailor uniformed) was not looked upon with surprise by OTHER men in the train. Older women (25+) did look at me... dirty looks. Dirty as in "you pervert". The girl you gave the seat to would usually give you an inordinate amount of attention, as if you were hitting on her real bad. Its so freaky I was scared to do it again after the 3rd time I noticed such reactions.

3) Women. The biggest mystery in the world goes BALLISTIC in Japan. I just dont get it. Socially they are inferior to the male, almost subordinate.. I cant find the word. Their gender role is almost reversed from that of the west. Women carry all the heavy stuff for the man, open the door for the man, etc. A working woman is looked upon more as "what's she doing here, she should be at home, not working in this office" kind of attitude. UNLESS of course her position is subordinate..like a secretary or translator or any kind of support-related fields (teaching, nurse). Interesting to note is that being a DOCTOR or an artist (music, painting, modeling ,etc) is almost considered the "highest" achievement for them in the workplace.

I had the pleasure of being in the ONE shinkansen (bullet train) in Japan that's driven by a woman. In that train many men were whispering about that, clearly uncomfortable. Go figure!

Yet the ladies are expected to be very feminine, for some reason they STRIVE to be "cute" (sometimes too much)...and the most shocking part of all.. it seems that in Japan, its the woman that makes the first moves on a relationship. In the west we'd consider this as being "too liberal" or "desperate for a date", but over there its normal. I wont say I didnt find it appealing (I wonder if thats how western women feel when they got guys going after them?), but it was certainly something quite out of the ordinary.

3) Fads. OHMFG! If I couldve ever seen a society so swayed by advertising and social pressure, this is IT. When I was there I witnessed 2 fashion changes.. no, not changes, REVOLUTIONS. When I first got there the fad was to wear some kind of beret and leather vest (a very formal, nice leather vest I must say). I thought it was nice, but I saw 4 out of every 10 girls throught the city with THE SAME EXACT ONE. into my second month, El Generalissimo fad creator took up arms and in less than a week the beret and vests had dissapeared from all the young women and was replaced by some sort of whore outfit. brown leather boots that reached to the knees.. and the sole of those boots was about 3 INCHES thick. REALLY high heels indeed. They dyed their hair to a light brownish color that I swear GLOWS in the dark, lipstick and eyeliners abused to the limit, and another kind of leather vest and pants that looked to be designed to advertise the girl's "attributes". And again, 4 out of every 10 girls wore the EXACT same outfit, the exact same hair color and painted their face in the same way.

What factory kept making all these clones??

I was friends with the neighbor's 16 year old girl, who luckily spoke english.. she and her high school friends were beggining to "get into the fad" by dying their hair and from what I heard they were about to buy "the outfit". As we waited for the train her friends asked her to ask me something..and apperantly she was also curious about the answer. She asked me about the outfit (oh god, any question but that!), if I, as a foreigner thought it looked "chic".

I could only ask her if she wanted a polite answer or an honest answer. She chose the honest one. I told her she'd look like a whore. A real cheap one at that. I was expecting a slap on my face but I think she actually thought about it. At least, I didnt see her in the outfit while I was there.

4) Natto: agree with the commment made in the above post. What the heck is that anyway? My host family gave me that for dinner one day, I felt as if I was eating something that had crawled in the sewer and died last week. Natto aside, Japanese food RULES. If I had the money id live there JUST for the food.

5) I agree 100% with Tachikaze. Excellent post! Which brings me to #6

6) Alchohol: Avaliable in vending machines in every street. WOW. No wonder 2 out of 10 people on the late night trains reek of beer and sake (and heck, you gotta drink a LOT of beer to REEK of beer!). Tachikaze's point on the alchohol consumption is dead on. Their society is very closed to emotional release, alchohol provides that. Being drunk is also socially acceptable (but not for women).

7) I never EVER saw a piece of garbage on the ground in Tokyo, Hokane or the outlying cities i visited. The army of sanitation crews the government has is AMAZING.

8) Sex: Though I had no direct experience, I did notice that if its new and fadish, they'll go for it to the point of addiction. Not surprising really. just add the factors I put in points 1-6. Fads+subordinate women+emotional repression = .... ? (list all "trademark" sex stuff from japan here).

9) Social pecking order: Their society seems based on a caste-like system based on either income, pedigree, position and where they got their university degree.

We all know the tradition of bowing. Well, its a bit more complicated. There's DEGREES of bowing based on the other person's position on the social ladder. The Emperor of course, gets a 90 degree bow. Priests, VIP's one's family elderly (aka head of family), one's superior boss (not your manager, but the president of the company).. all get 75 degrees of a bow. 45 degrees are either your elderly, parents, people you personally respect a lot or bow is done to show much appreciation for something you did. from 10 to 35 degrees is more of a courtesy bow, or between friends.

Just to give you a great example, when I was there the Sumo tournament was done.. and that huge guy (as in tall, theyre all huge) from Hawaii had won the tournament.. and this lucky Gaijin had the great luck of having his school pre-arrange before the tournament to watch the sumo wrestlers train one morning.. and their "dojo" (they called them STABLES.. go figure) was the one which the champ trained in. And we got to see him.

My japanese teacher (woman) was so awed she was bowing like a rubber band every time the champ talked to her. Anyway, the point of this is that a week after he won the tournament, this sumo champ, now being almost one rung below the Emperor himself in the social ladder, was getting married to the most GORGEOUS girl ive ever seen. A model of renown. Reason for marriage: He's the champ and his social status is waaaaay up there.

This is the saddest thing I saw. The girl was marrying for money and position, they hadnt even met before. Maybe im just too romantic or idealistic.. or im just a clueless gaijin =P

AND FINALLY!

Dont get me wrong, Japanese girls are very pretty.. but very few of them are pretty. I would walk through entire army division's worth of girls in my daily commute and see one or 2 that were pretty. Or maybe I just commuted through the ugly section of town. Dunno. I did find however, was that almost ALL of the very pretty girls I had the chance to talk to, were KOREAN or descendants of Koreans.

And ive been to Korea (south) as well, and damn, the great majority of the ladies are gorgeous there. The point is, besides my hormone pumped typing, is that I also noticed that these pretty girls were ostracized (pushed aside, socially rejected) from the other girls. Not because they were pretty, but because they were korean. I also met with a Swedish family that had lived in japan for 40 years (immigrated after the war) and had raised a daughter there.. who in turn had her own daughter, aged 20). The 20 yrs old girl was "Japanized" completely, and yet she was still bumped away by many because of it. BUT since she was blond and tall she got a different treatment than the korean girls. Its hard to explain, but picture it as how people in the US treated blacks in the early 70's (whites accepted them but still kept their distance) would be the Koreans, latinos (not accepted in your own little circle of friends, but sought after because they are either too fun to be with or plain exotic) would be the western foreigners who have blue eyes and blond/red hair.

Its almost as if their society had a strict, pre-written script for every person, taking into account their gender, age, status and ancestry. Its frightenting. And yet its the one thing that keeps them from exploding into chaos.

[Papewaio]

Very true regarding Korean women and Korean/European mixed, some of them are eyepopping in a good way .

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Never start a land war in Asia
Never bet with a Sicilian when death is on the line
Never expect anything more then sarcasm from an Australian

[Leon]

Great post, Tac. Good read and really interesting.

[Shiro]

Thanks, Tac. I enjoyed your post and it is indeed quite interesting.

[Tac]

I read some of ye here may be thinking on going there... here's a very useful tidbit:

Face.

The Japanese will do anything for it. By this of course I mean as in "to save face" or "keep face".

On my first days in Tokyo I got lost for hours on end just in the train stations. I would usually just follow 1 person at random until they either walked into another ticket machine or led me to an exit. Zen navigation at its best. I had stopped even trying to ask for directions , for I always got the same ol' "gomen, eigo wakarimasen" (sorry, dont understand english". Even when I was asking them in broken japanese. This was when I asked a person walking on his own.

HOWEVER, when I asked someone that was in a group... ooooh boy, total attitude change. They would even take me by the hand to the exit, even if it was far away.

Individuals dont feel "obliged" to be nice (courteous, honorable, whatever it is the Japanese mind coins it) to a stranger, but when in a group the social pressure makes them go overboard to not lose face. Here in the US, I personally am more inclined to help someone in that way (read: taking them to the exit) when im on my own than when im in a group (id probably point them in the right direction, but thats it). Strange world eh?.

So now you know, when you go there and get lost (and you WILL get lost), find someone in a group to take you. *wicked grin*.

[Tachikaze]

It's good to read your stuff, Tac. I have been studying and experiencing Japan for a long time now, but I still keep learning more. Some of the things I have seen there you explained well. I understand the place a little more each time I hear from another gaikokujin. But I also find out how little I know, as well.

I have known both Korean and Japanese women. I usually prefer Japanese in appearance, but I can understand the attraction to Koreans. But don't get me wrong, I have seen some awesome Korean gals.

My preference for Japanese also means I find a higher percentage of beauty in the crowds in Japan. Not the brown-haired "whores" of course. The more-natural the better.

[Tac]

Do you speak Japanese? (I got a question that has been naggin' me for a year now and nobody can answer it *grin*).

I've been looking for a way to get a job there, but its very hard for a college student. Perhaps a non-enlisted job in a US military base, but thats a hard job to get too. Even looked at Disney for a chance, but the Mouse only wants people who are willing to act like morons overtime for less than minimal wage.. so screw 'em

"The more-natural the better"

Indeed. Its interesting that many women over there are dyeing their hair to get a brownish color (the "outfit"'s hair dye was almost neon brown) , not part of a fad but more of like a personal choice. Perhaps a hint of individualism is seeping in

and of course, there's the violet and yellow dyed hairstyles of those that read too much manga on their way home. Come to think of it, I did see a few sailor moon look alikes. Brrrr!