Suggestions

**SwordsMaster** · 01-06-2005, 19:57

Originally Posted by khelvan

Excellent suggestion!

If only it weren't hardcoded.

oh, is it? pity

**khelvan** · 01-06-2005, 20:00

If you can find an exposed portion, we'll happily mod it! Just let me know ;)

**Divinus Arma** · 01-07-2005, 02:08

First, I recognize the focus is not on Rome, but on the need to improve everything non-Roman. However, Regarding Roman unit skins:

Did Roman legions fighting in the North dress warmer in the winter? It seems like a tunic would be quite cold, especially for the supporting combatants like archers and seige engineers. Would they not don additional clothing, such as fur, etc?

Just a thought... forgive my ignorance.

Regards

**Wikingus** · 01-07-2005, 15:18

Originally Posted by Divinus Arma

First, I recognize the focus is not on Rome, but on the need to improve everything non-Roman. However, Regarding Roman unit skins:

Did Roman legions fighting in the North dress warmer in the winter? It seems like a tunic would be quite cold, especially for the supporting combatants like archers and seige engineers. Would they not don additional clothing, such as fur, etc?

Just a thought... forgive my ignorance.

Regards

Yes they did, they used furs and similar, adopting techniques to keep themselves warm from the local population. So towards the end of the Empire with many of the troops being Germans, many units looked more "barbaric" than "Roman" as we would imagine it anyway. :) But that's out of the time frame of RTW anyway.

But I doubt it's possible to implement separate skins for winter time, but I'm not working on the mod, so I don't really know.

**Divinus Arma** · 01-08-2005, 04:46

If that is the case, and units can be regionally restricted for production; then perhaps legions raised in the colder climates could reflect this.

Thus, raise legions in Germanic regions and a set of observable and distinct uniform alterations (in agreement with history of course) would apply.

This would aid in the depth of experience, similar to that gained by regional titles granted to units I.E. "Legio V Germania" or Hispania, or whatever.

Of course, I am totally oblivious to all things modding, and thus remain awed by the entire process even now. My simple suggestions are only humbly submitted as passing thoughts of mild creativity. My thanks for the tolerance.

Warmest Regards,

Divinus Arma

**Wikingus** · 01-08-2005, 13:08

But won't they change it, so that Roman troops will only be recruitable in Italy?
Then there would be no need to make separate skins. Don't know though.

**Aymar de Bois Mauri** · 01-08-2005, 15:15

Different skins are used to differentiate different faction's units, not the same unit with different clothings. To allow your ideas to work out we need new units that are just recruitable in that region and that have a "fur" skin.

**khelvan** · 01-08-2005, 19:38

Actually, Aymar, is that really the case? RTR, for instance, had different skins for the same unit within the same faction based on the province it was recruited from. Since we now have the ability to define basically an infinite number of recruitment regions we could do this, if we have the time to do the skinning, and it is possible to do it without defining new units.

The problem as I see it is that we can't change the skin based on the season. So if that legion recruited in a northern area is in battle in North Africa in the middle of summer, they will still be wearing furs.

**Divinus Arma** · 01-09-2005, 00:33

Originally Posted by khelvan

...if that legion recruited in a northern area is in battle in North Africa in the middle of summer, they will still be wearing furs.

Great point, Khelvan. I can't help but wonder though, where to strike the balance? I've read through many of your teams discussions on the historical accuracy of naked barbarians (or shirtless, rather). This may be a problem no matter what.

To quote Shigawire:

Originally Posted by Shigawire

Don't forget that the Gaesatae was a tribe of mercenaries in Cisalpine Gaul, I don't want to see them being recruitable in Belgae or Britain for example. :p

I understand that much of Shigawire's comments relate to unit training origination location, but it also points out the relevance of climatic-regional unit representation.

It is just as absurd to have fur-clad romans marching around in North Africa as it is to have naked egyptians charging the Celtic northlands.

Also, if I may Quote Aymar de Bois Mauri in the opening of your valiant effort:

Originally Posted by Aymar de Bois Mauri

To try to make CA improve their rather "approximative" (incorrect, really) depiction of Celts, Britons, Germanics and Dacians in RTW.

Clearly, the intended purpose of EB is historical regional accuracy.

In conclusion, to exclude the climatic-regional alteration of (Roman) uniforms
is to counter the original intent of your project. The question and purpose of your endeavor, my lads, is not where the units will end up. Ultimately, historical integrity will require an acute focus on the unit's region of origination. I might also add that this will contribute significantly to the emersion so many of us crave, as we will have our "favorite units" from various regions!

Warmest regards,

Divinus Arma

P.S. How might I contribute? At the least, I would like to show my support.

**QwertyMIDX** · 01-10-2005, 07:53

Originally Posted by khelvan

Our plan is simple - to allow the recruitment of troops where it is historically accurate to do so. If certain troops could be recruited after their region fell under the control of a greater power, those troops will be recruitable in that context in our mod. Mercenaries, regional troops, faction troops, all will have an area where they can be recruited based on historical conditions.

I think you will be pleasantly surprised by how much detail we are able to put into this area of our mod.

With respect to the homelands system won't restricting where assimilation and integration takes place to where it happened historically give advantages to the more historically successful factions? While the aim of the EB mod is historical accuracy, its goal isn't to make RTW into a historical simulation that merely reenacts history in the manner it happened. After a long period or Roman rule and successful Romanization it would seem only logical for it to be possible to recruit Roman Legions there, as happened, for example in Illyricum after Tiberius’ invasion and its subsequent Annexation.

Would it be possible for the EB mod to extend the period of time during which RTW takes place? I for one would like to be able to play into the 2nd or 3rd centuries A.D and the height of Imperial Rome.

I also find the fact that a bribed army (if its not made up of troops that your faction uses) disperses. Considering the level of mercenary use during the period wouldn’t it be more realistic for them to join your faction as mercenaries supplying you with troops (and a suitably massive upkeep cost). Also, is it possible to increase the cost and difficulty of bribing, and also take into account how close to home the army being bribe is. I would think it would take an incredible amount of money to hire a Germanic warband to attack their own tribal chief but significantly less to fight against a neighbor Gallic one.

Is it possible to reduce the distance to capital penalty? If possible it would seem to make sense that a good road system and a large amount of trade and thriving sea lanes should do something to mitigate this. After all, the Roman road system was almost as important in keeping the Empire together as the Legions.

The system of population and cities in RTW seems to tell us that everyone in the ancient world lived in urban centers. This is of course ridiculous as the vast majority of the population of the ancient world was made up of farmers who lived in the countryside. As such it should be feasible for a city of only 1000 to raise a number of (poorly equipped and trained) solders far in excess of its size. Either the population of cities in RTW is referring to the entire population of the province, in which case squalor would be a notably less pressing issue, or it is referring only to the population of the city proper, and as such the recruitment system seems notably flawed. While this, especially if the later supposition is true, would make little difference in actual game play, I still find it quite irksome.

Finally, sorry about the length of this post, could you briefly explain what EB’s plans for dealing with Roman factions are. It seems both ridiculous and ahistorical to have such private family fiefdoms during the high of the Republic’s power (although it becomes notably more accurate later in Roman history). I would love to at least seem a more unified Roman military uniform (rather than the radically different Purple, Red, Blue and Green) or vanilla RTW (same look different banners perhaps). It would be even nicer to see a unified Rome where 3 different families count as generals and governors and compete for leadership positions dispensed by the senate (of which they are important members). I’m about 99.9% sure that would require a complete recoding of large parts of the game though and will have to wait (fruitlessly I’m sure) for CA to do something about it.

**khelvan** · 01-11-2005, 20:01