Pelstat casualties

[m4rt14n]

I'd take my Pavise Arbalaster any day....

Wait thats a different game... I'm actually missing MTW now, should I reinstall??

[Red Harvest]

The fact that they started to run at that exact moment resulted in most of the arrows flat out missing their thin lines (4 men deep).

The average 18-year-old male can run at 12-15 mph (I think). I'm guessing that the well-trained greeks, even with their armor, were probably able to run 6 mph (due to how fresh they were and also how short the run was going to be). They would probably make it to the enemy lines in 1 minute and 8 seconds. How many volleys would the Persians get to shoot off in such a short time? Also, note that the Persians would probably avoid firing at the Greeks once they got within a few yards of them to avoid hitting their own lines. Try this out in the game and see how many casualties you can inflict in 1 minute on troops that are running towards you. It probably won't be a lot. Also, the battle of marathon took place at around 490 BC, meaning that there were many improvements to bows in over 200 years (game starts at around 260 BC I think).

Wrong, wrong, wrong. Bows were not all that effective at the time. Carthaginian armies didn't even use them in any quantity during the Punic wars. The Spanish (celt iberians) didn't even use bows for military purposes at the time although they did use bows for hunting at times. Slingers were considered much more useful by both Carthage and Rome. Rome began using some archers near the end of the Punic wars--Cretan mercs. These were apparently primarily used during sieges. Rome began using archers later in the east to deal with horse archers and the like, where they needed a stand off weapon.

Archery was used effectively in limited circumstances in Greek warfare. It was almost always in conjunction with javelins in such a fashion as to wear out the hoplites and slowly attrit them--not to cut them to shreds in a few volleys.

In my tests armoured hoplites take 1 to 2% casualties per volley from a single unit of archers. Make that several units (as the Persians would be fielding with their typical hordes of archers) and you will be looking at 5 to 10% casualties per volley. At least 3 volleys would be fired before the hoplites could close (since I can get off 10 when they march in with phalanx formation that they switch to halfway across.) And these are some of the best armoured units in the game, standard hoplites would take many more casualties and be utterly worthless by the time they reached the opposing line--Spartan hoplites are lightly armoured and would take a beating. I've seen lightly armoured troops like Balearic slingers take 15 and even 20% casualties from a single volley, while on the move, and from a single archer warband unit at its max range.

[Mus]

I don't know. The arrow damage does seem somewhat realistic. The quote "Then we shall fight in the shade" was said at Thermopylae, if I remember correctly. The Spartans picked a location where the Persian arrows were not as useful against them.

Their location was picked to create a situation where their flanks were inaccessible not to protect them from arrows.

Anyways Hoplites of the time were pretty heavily armoured, including the legs. Even after the time when many hoplites were no longer wearing greaves for greater mobility they hung a leather flap from the bottom of their Hoplons to break the flight of missiles a good distance from the body.

[Mus]

Archery was used effectively in limited circumstances in Greek warfare. It was almost always in conjunction with javelins in such a fashion as to wear out the hoplites and slowly attrit them--not to cut them to shreds in a few volleys.

And when peltasts and archers became more heavily used it was because of their increased effectiveness due to the ever lightening armor of the hoplite of the times. They gave up more and more armor for greater mobility as time went on.

Anyways, I agree the effects of archers against armored units is way too high.

[Clips]

Best way to use the beats are wait until you engage the enemy and have them being held, make sure the skirmish unit is on hold formation and position, and when you have your front line engaged and holdiing the skirmishers should start firing at will (leave it on) and after some time the enemy will begin to waver and then run, they are a good unit, espeically napthas but you Must use them properly.