2 questions about the AI

[Ash]

After starting and playing several English GA campaigns, I decided to start a conquest compaign.
I use very aggressive tactics as the English, and attack most of my neighbours, starting with the French. This may sound ruthless, but it is my experience that the AI picks a fight with you even if you're allied with them and haven't wronged them. So I might as well be the one to start.

When I started the conquest campaign, I used the same tactics I used before in my GA games. Immediately attacking France, Killing off Aragon (and if I get the chance Denmark), and reducing borders with the HRE.
I do this because if I don't I'm left with hard to defend French lands which Aragon, Spain and HRE will attack anyway.

My question is this. Is the "campaign AI" even more merciless towards you then the "GA AI"? Because almost immediately everyone started hating me (not so surprising I admit) and attacked me as soon as my territory/ship was in sight. My only allies are the Spanish now, but I know from the past they won't let up a chance to attack me as soon as I leave Aragon.
In my GA games I was far more able to blitzkrieg my way through Europe without everyone declaring war against me.

I guess it will make this game even more challenging.

My other question is how much the AI gangs up on you. I've found as the English my neighbouring factions are quite peaceful. This is striking to me as when I'm playing as another faction like the Hungarians, other factions are much more inclined to war.
HRE rarely attacks anyone when I play as the English, rarely they only go after the Italians. Italians never attack anyone when I'm as the English. The Polish will rarely war with the HRE, as will the Hungarians. The Danish never attack the HRE. The Sicilians will rarely war with anyone other then Byzantium for Naples. And finally, and most surprising, the Spanish will always ally with the Alamohads!
This leaves my neighbours with enough troops to garison at my borders. Not that it will save them but I do find it striking.

I guess the AI asserts the player's threat correctly or something...

[Pericles]

As you attack Catholic countries, the Pope will call upon other Catholic countries to fight you, even caling for Crusades against you.

For a tougher fight, here is an easy modding tip:

Go into the following folder, and open the file for the time period you are playing (such as Early, High, etc):

C:\Program Files\Total War\Medieval - Total War\campmap\startpos

Then:

1) Set unlimited end date:

SetStartDate:: 1087
SetPeriod:: EARLY
SetEarlyPeriodStartDate:: 1087
SetHighPeriodStartDate:: 1205
SetLatePeriodStartDate:: 1321
SetGameEndDate:: 2003

[Pericles]

What's up with this forum?

Why can't I post more info in a post?

My post above was much longer, but I can't seem to post more info in it??

[Pericles]

Here is a continuation of my post above regarding modding:


2) Set starting treasury for other factions:

So if you are playing as the English on HARD, then give all other factions 100000 florins on hard.

//========================================
//Starting Treasury
//Sets the amount of cash available to
//each faction at the start of the game.
//you can specify 4 values for the four
//difficulty levels in the order EASY,
//NORMAL, HARD and EXPERT. Specify only one
//value to start all difficulty levels with
//the same size treasury.
//If you don't set this, the default
//is 2000 florins for all difficulty levels.
//========================================
SetTreasury:: FN_ALMOHAD 10000 8000 100000 4000
SetTreasury:: FN_BYZANTINE 10000 8000 100000 4000
SetTreasury:: FN_EGYPTIAN 10000 8000 100000 4000
SetTreasury:: FN_ENGLISH 10000 8000 6000 4000
SetTreasury:: FN_FRENCH 10000 8000 100000 4000
SetTreasury:: FN_GERMAN_HRE 10000 8000 100000 4000
SetTreasury:: FN_ITALIAN 10000 8000 100000 4000
SetTreasury:: FN_POLISH 10000 8000 100000 4000
SetTreasury:: FN_SPANISH 10000 8000 100000 4000
SetTreasury:: FN_TURKISH 10000 8000 100000 4000

SetTreasury:: FN_HUNGARIAN 10000 8000 100000 4000
SetTreasury:: FN_NOVGOROD 10000 8000 100000 4000
SetTreasury:: FN_PAPIST 10000 8000 100000 4000
SetTreasury:: FN_SICILIAN 10000 8000 100000 4000
SetTreasury:: FN_DANISH 10000 8000 100000 4000
SetTreasury:: FN_ARAGONESE 10000 8000 100000 4000

[Pericles]

3) Finally, make all other factions more expansionist, like this:


//========================================
//Faction Behaviour
//This is the default behaviour of each
//faction, various in game factor will
//alter it. Rebel are always set to REBEL
//these are the available options
//also note that these are related to the
//product spreadsheet
//CATHOLIC_EXPANSIONIST_CRUSADER
//CATHOLIC_EXPANSIONIST
//CATHOLIC_NAVAL_EXPANSIONIST
//CATHOLIC_ISOLATIONIST
//CATHOLIC_TRADER
//CATHOLIC_CRUSADER_TRADER
//CATHOLIC_DEFENSIVE_CRUSADER
//CATHOLIC_DEFENSIVE
//ORTHODOX_EXPANSIONIST
//ORTHODOX_STAGNANT
//ORTHODOX_DEFENSIVE
//MUSLIM_EXPANSIONIST
//MUSLIM_PEACEFUL
//MUSLIM_DEVOUT
//POVERTY_STRICKEN
//DESPERATE_DEFENCE
//CLOSE_TO_SUPPORT_LIMIT
//POPE
//BARBARIAN_RAIDER
//REBELS

//========================================
SetBehaviour:: FN_ALMOHAD MUSLIM_EXPANSIONIST
SetBehaviour:: FN_BYZANTINE ORTHODOX_EXPANSIONIST
SetBehaviour:: FN_DANISH CATHOLIC_NAVAL_EXPANSIONIST
SetBehaviour:: FN_EGYPTIAN MUSLIM_EXPANSIONIST
SetBehaviour:: FN_ENGLISH CATHOLIC_EXPANSIONIST
SetBehaviour:: FN_FRENCH CATHOLIC_EXPANSIONIST_CRUSADER
SetBehaviour:: FN_GERMAN_HRE CATHOLIC_EXPANSIONIST_CRUSADER
SetBehaviour:: FN_ITALIAN CATHOLIC_EXPANSIONIST
SetBehaviour:: FN_POLISH CATHOLIC_EXPANSIONIST
SetBehaviour:: FN_RUSSIAN ORTHODOX_EXPANSIONIST
SetBehaviour:: FN_SPANISH CATHOLIC_EXPANSIONIST_CRUSADER
SetBehaviour:: FN_TURKISH MUSLIM_EXPANSIONIST
SetBehaviour:: FN_ARAGONESE CATHOLIC_EXPANSIONIST
SetBehaviour:: FN_BURGUNDIAN CATHOLIC_EXPANSIONIST
SetBehaviour:: FN_GOLDEN_HORDE BARBARIAN_RAIDER
SetBehaviour:: FN_HUNGARIAN CATHOLIC_EXPANSIONIST
SetBehaviour:: FN_NOVGOROD ORTHODOX_EXPANSIONIST
SetBehaviour:: FN_PAPIST POPE
SetBehaviour:: FN_SICILIAN CATHOLIC_NAVAL_EXPANSIONIST
SetBehaviour:: FN_SWISS CATHOLIC_ISOLATIONIST


There you have it - in just 5 minutes anyone can mod their game to give themselves a much greater challenge. Just be sure to make a copy of your files before changing anything.

Cheers!

[Pericles]

Using the above changes I started a game on hard as Spain.

While I started with default money (6000 florins), I gave all other factions 100,000 florins and made all other factions expansionist.

I started off well, and after several decades I was earning 5,000 florins per turn, and I had secured all of Spain. Then I took Morocco.

That was when the other powers decided to have their way with me.

The English jumped me from the landward side, and seized a province from me. After a bitter battle, I re-took the province.

Then the Italian King landed in North Africa with a sizable army beside Morocco effectively blocking me from any expansion in that direction.

Then the Italians surrounded all of Spain with ships, and using amphibious operations, attacked three Spanish provinces seizing two of them after some bitter battles. We are currently in a see-saw battle to hold Aragon: the Italians attack and take this province; then I attack to take it.

I am now pumping out units. But I am now locked in a life-and-death struggle to hold on!

My big mistake was to concentrate on building up Spanish infrastructure and on being a land power. I failed to build a fleet.

However, it was still early in the game, and I didn't think I would be in a bitter struggle this early. I thought I had time to build up and then prepare for the large powers.

If I can survive this on-slaught, I will be building a fleet ASAP.

The AI has been relentless and very aggressive.

[VikingHorde]

The bad thing about making the factions EXPANSIONIST, is that they expand too fast and kingdoms fall apart too quickly. I find the game better when all catholic factions are DEFENSIVE, because there will then be more buildup. A better way to make the game harder is increasing the farmincome by 30% (did this in the XL mod), but reduced the trade income (because it's a cheat, AI can't handel trade). Factions will then start building larger armys, more building ext and after some time, the AI gets very agressive

[Ash]

[QUOTE=Pericles]For a tougher fight, here is an easy modding tip:

Well that's nice, but I'm not looking for a tougher fight, I just wanted to know how aggressive the AI is towards you then towards other factions.

[Pericles]

The bad thing about making the factions EXPANSIONIST, is that they expand too fast and kingdoms fall apart too quickly. I find the game better when all catholic factions are DEFENSIVE, because there will then be more buildup. A better way to make the game harder is increasing the farmincome by 30% (did this in the XL mod), but reduced the trade income (because it's a cheat, AI can't handel trade). Factions will then start building larger armys, more building ext and after some time, the AI gets very agressive

I haven't tried your mod yet (you can be sure I will) I have heard nothing but good things about it. ATM I am not done playing with the default game.

I just wanted to get down and dirty in the files to see what I could come up with.

This is basically a "do it yourself 5 minute mod" for those who want to play with the default game files.

I thought about the aggression and the Kingdoms falling apart - that's why I gave all AI factions 100,000 florins. They should all have money to spare to build and fight. So far they are all fighting and hanging in there - even HRE.

People can give the other factions as little or as many florins as they wish (up to 1 million and more if they are so inclined).

I have thought about giving the other factions an Inn - that way they would have mercenaries (and thus better troops early on). It might be a nice mix. And it would make sense: if you don't have the troops, hire mercenaries. . . heheh

[Pericles]

[QUOTE=Ash]

For a tougher fight, here is an easy modding tip:

Well that's nice, but I'm not looking for a tougher fight, I just wanted to know how aggressive the AI is towards you then towards other factions.

It's approximately 1100 AD and all of the major factions are at war - no one has been eliminated yet.

I'm playing on Hard - so it's tough from that standpoint. The AI is definitely more aggressive. And with the extra income and aggression the AI factions are definitely pushing their weight around; the AI is attacking each other as well as me.

But it makes sense that England and Italy would attack me. They are next to me, plus my provinces are very rich and I have a sizable income. So they are obviously after my country for the infrastructure. It should be noted that they DO NOT pillage when they enter Spain. That means they WANT those provinces for the income.

At the moment Italy and I (as Spain) are locked in a titanic struggle for control of Spain.

Italy has complete naval supremacy in the Med and Atlantic around Spain. It also has sizable stacks and has been landing in my provinces at will. They have also been upgrading. Italy is also building up for another attack on Aragon from the landward side with three stacks and counting

I have an excellent infrastructure and income and have gone on a total war footing, churning out units every turn including Royal Knights, Jinettes and Feudal Men at Arms. I hold a slight edge on land, with wins/losses about equal between me and Italy.

My plan is to crank out land units and defeat Italy in Spain. Hopefully, Italy will sue for peace. THEN I will work on producing a fleet. As it stands right now any ships I pump out now will be lost to Italian ships. So I'll wait.

So far, I have engaged in at least two battles per turn, and they have been close run battles - the outcome is usually decided by the side with the better tactics. The AI has surprised me on more than one ocassion

I must say that usually these types of fights occur later in the game, so it is a pleasant surprise to encounter them early on. I'm having a blast

Stay tuned to find out who wins this Spanish/Italian War.

[Pericles]

Cripes!

This Spanish/Italian War has now lasted 45 years!

Italy is not invading Spain as often now, but it is definitely finding my weak spots and hitting any provinces which show any weakness.

So far Italy has not invaded Aragon. We now have 4 stacks between the two of us facing each other over Aragon. Neither side is willing to commit its forces in a showdown here.

I have huge armies and thankfully my economy can sustain this all out Total War footing. Italy and Spain have lost tens of thousands of soldiers in battle over the years, with up to 600 men falling in single battles alone. And still there is no end.

Where is the Pope? Why hasn't he excommunicated Italy?

In addition to invading me, Italy is now sending in Inquisitors and they are wreaking havoc on my officer corps.

Something has to be done and soon. . .

I think I will build a Chapter House and launch a Crusade against Italy

heheh

After 45 years of fighting, I am almost giddy at the prospect - heheh

That will show them. . .

Make no mistake: Italy and I are locked in a death struggle. It has become personal, and I don't intend to give up.

[HopAlongBunny]

[QUOTE=Ash]

For a tougher fight, here is an easy modding tip:

Well that's nice, but I'm not looking for a tougher fight, I just wanted to know how aggressive the AI is towards you then towards other factions.

The AI seems to be more aggressive towards the player in a "domination" campaign. I don't know if that's actually true it just seems that way to me. You might want to try for total domination of the seas around your buddy in Spain before going too much further. Spain has plenty of ports to trade with, and it sets you up for the irresistable "Spanish Blitz"; hopefully some other factions will have made peace by then and you can trade with them

[Pericles]

It's now 1166 AD and Italy and I are still at war (for 66 straight years).

Fortunately, I have enough forces in my Spanish provinces so that Italy hasn't invaded for some time. But it will still not make peace with me.

We finally had a big fight over Aragon: total forces involved in The Battle of The plains of Aragon numbered 3,200 soldiers. It ended with a Spanish victory over Italy with casualties at over 900 dead.

I also built a Chapter House and launched a Crusade against Italy (specifically at Toulouse which Italy was using to attack Aragon). Needless to say, Italy is smarting from that "Pious Spanking" - heheh

I want to expand into North Africa, but before I do, I'm going to achieve naval supremacy in the Med. To that end, I'm building ports and ships, and soon there should be some decisive naval battles. . .

I should add that with the changes I've made the AI has not gangbanged me. In fact, several factions have allied with me including the Papacy. . .

In addition, most of the factions have been upgrading with no problems. I checked out the HRE and they have some awesome looking units and stacks. They have been at war with England and France and have held their own nicely.

I think giving the AI factions 100,000 florins has allowed them to respond to the player as they should be doing. They know how to upgrade and build, but I think they were just lacking the funds.

All-in-all, I am enjoying my game. There has never been a dull moment

[Pericles]

A few comments on the 5 Minute Mod:

1) Italy made peace with me in 1196 AD. We were at war for almost 100 years. I also built a fleet and took out Italy's fleet.

2) I am not at war with anyone right now.

3) In most vanilla games I play, the HRE and England are quickly wiped out, while Italy goes on to become a superpower.

However, with my modded files, I am finding that England, the HRE, and Egypt are becoming superpowers, while Italy and the Papacy are slipping fast.

It should be noted that I have NOT edited the factions on the map in any way. Yet, with the 100,000 Florins I gave each faction I note that the quality of units being produced by several factions is generally on par with those of my troops. Yes, they have even built armories to upgrade units.

I found that the factions just needed more money, and they seem quite capable of taking care of themselves.

4) I modded the "Early.txt" file and gave ALL factions an Inn. I think being able to recruit mercenaries even early on is both practical and historical and should allow the AI factions to inject some meaty units in their troop line-ups. This should not be unbalancing in any way since few mercenaries are available at any one time.

One tactic I have often used is to recruit mercenaries to take over provinces when I didn't have enough troops. Now the AI factions (having an Inn) will have this "leveling" opportunity as well. And this should help close a loophole that some players use (including me).

5) One thing I have noticed even in the vanilla game is the fact that the same factions (such as Turkey) seem to run out of heirs and then become rebel factions.

One annoying thing is that all heirs seem to hang out in the same province as the King. Attack that province and you eliminate all heirs. Is this hard-coded? Can the heir placement be changed?

To counter this loss of heirs I have also modded the "Early.txt" file and doubled the number of heirs for all factions and spaced out their arrival times, so that an heir will always show up. Some factions might still lose all their heirs, but at least this should slow it down.

Have any modders found a better and more effective way to ensure that factions always have an heir?

So far in my current game as Spain (Hard, Early), it looks as though Egypt is going to be a monster to take on. I also note that England and the HRE are expanding rapidly.

Thus I have one superpower expanding to the south and east of me (Egypt - it also has a sizable fleet in the Med), while England is expanding rapidly to my north and is showing up in my waters with a fleet.

Should prove to be an interesting game.

[Pericles]

It's now 1216 AD

Funny how the fortunes of war and commerce can change the complexion of things.

Here is how the situation looks:

1) Italy and the Papacy have made a strong comeback. I am now allied with Italy!

2) However, Egypt has developed into a monster of a civilization, and it is on the warpath. It has a ton of ships in the Med; it has conquered all of Africa; and huge forces have moved west as far as Italy and Constantinople. The Papacy is fighting for its life against Egyptian forces, but it is steadily losing the war.

3) I am allied to Egypt and am at war only with England.

4) Thus, here is my dilemma:

I have a very lucrative trade going with Egypt. I now have 43,000 Florins in the bank and it's growing fast. Yet, I cannot allow Egypt to get much bigger, since it will eventually come after me. However, if I attack Egypt then all that trade money will be lost.

5) So here is what I plan to do:

a) In the north I will use England, Italy and the HRE as buffers between me and Egypt. My landward borders in the north will therefore be safe for quite some time and Egypt will be unable to touch me there.

b) I will start to build a large fleet that will prevent huge Egyptian forces from landing in my provinces in Spain. Hopefully I can also destroy a lot of Egyptian ships. This should protect my provinces from maritime attack.

c) The only place Egypt can attack me directly is in Algeria. I control this province, and it faces Tunisia which is held by Egypt. Therefore, I intend to build up my forces in this province and keep them on the defensive. If war breaks out this province is going to see some titanic battles. The very existance of western civilization may well hang in the balance.

d) In just a few years the Golden Horde is going to appear. This is my ace in the hole. With massive Egyptian forces placed in the west, I am hoping that tens of thousands of screaming Mongol warriors will place a major dent in the Egyptian war machine. I may even time my war with Egypt at about the same time as the Horde makes its appearance.

e) Finally, I also have the option of hitting the Egyptians in Constantinople with a Crusade which I will stack with my troops, with mercenaries, and with the troops of all the countries through which the Crusade Marker will pass.

That's basically it in a nutshell: Egypt must be stopped within the next few years or else it will swallow up European civilization.

[Pericles]

It's Now 1226 AD:

Here is the situation:

I am now at war with Egypt. However, I am allied with Italy, the HRE, the Papacy and Sicily. I am trying to end the war with England, but the English King has been deaf to my entreaties.

1) I built a huge fleet and after a large number of naval clashes I hold one quarter of the western side of the Med. My Spanish borders are safe from Amphibious attack.

However, Egypt still maintains a huge fleet and holds the other 3/4s of the Med. In particular it controls the water around Italy and has been landing forces there at will. Almost all of Italy has fallen to these Muslim warriors and there is still no end in sight.

I will need to build more ships and then fight Egyptian ships for control of the waters around Italy. This will prevent Egypt from reinforcing its forces there, and hopefully a combined European onslaught can defeat the Muslim forces there.

2) The good news is that rebellion is in the air and even now Loyalist factions have been rising against their Muslim Overlords in Italy. And the Papacy, although it holds only one province, still maintains substantial forces in it.

3) I launched a Crusade to re-take Venice from Egypt. I loaded it with thousands of mercenary troops and sent it on its way. When it finally entered Venice, it contained a ton of troops. Egypt, in turn, sent in thousands of its fanatical warriors, and the resulting battle lasted 3 hours: I had 30 units as reinforcements alone. In the resulting battle 3,500 soldiers lay dead on the battlefield, and the Crusade was repulsed. However, this placed a major dent in Egyptian forces and showed to other countries that the invincible masses of Muslim warriors could indeed be stopped.

Italy and the HRE maintain large forces in the west and north of these Egyptian forces and should be attacking them soon.

4) By using ONLY mercenary troops for my Crusade I have not lost a single soldier so far. In keeping with this, I have sent thousands of front-line, upgraded troops to Algeria. I plan to attack Egyptian forces in Tunisia by land, and then to control the waters surrounding it, to prevent Egypt from easily reinforcing it by sea.

5) As a result of the war I have lost my lucrative trade income, and because of my massive troop and naval build-up I am running a slight deficit. However, I still have 41,000 Florins in the bank, and I am sure that once I fight more battles (and lose men and ships) this deficit should be eliminated.

6) The Golden Horde should be making its appearance soon. With most of Egypt's forces tied down in the west in titanic battles, it should be a very unpleasant surprise to them. I have never been so happy to see the Horde make its appearance then I have at this time.

7) In my encounters with Egyptian forces so far, they have proven to be formidable warriors. With a huge empire and income to back its aggressive advance in the west, they will prove to be a tough opponent.

The outcome still lies in the balance. . .

[Pericles]

It's Now 1230 AD:

Throughout every marketplace and town square in Spain can be heard the reverberating sound of Church bells as they ring out only one word: Victory! Victory! Victory!

The past four years of have seen some of the most titanic land and naval battles yet seen in the history of Europe. Yet, through all this struggle the tide has been turned against the Egyptian onslaught.

If money is a measure of effort, then let it tell the tale:

Four years ago Spain had 50,000 Florins in its coffers with an annual income of 5,000 Florins. After just four years of brutal warfare Spain now has only 10,000 Florins in its coffers and it is running a deficit of 1,400 Florins per year.

1) In Europe my previous Crusade against the Egyptians in Venice weakened them quite a bit. Soon after this, powerful German and Italian armies invaded and re-took Provence and Venice from the Egyptians. Then Papal armies waged a successful fight to re-take another province in Italy.

2) In the Med a big naval expansion on my part resulted in several successful naval battles which left me controlling half the Med, especially the waters around Italy. This meant that Egyptian forces in Italy were cut-off from reinforcements, and are even now being attacked by European armies.

3) In North Africa I attacked the Egyptians in Tunisia. After several very bloody battles I finally captured this province.

4) Loyalist uprisings in Italy have resulted in major headaches for the would-be Egyptian conquerors. As well, revolts have broken out in several other Egyptian provinces.

Clearly the tide has been turned and Europe has been saved from this menace.

5) Yet news has reached me that tens of thousands of warriors called The Golden Horde are even now sweeping north-west across the Steppes and south into Egyptian-held territory.

But this is of no concern to me at the moment, since I am hoping that powerful European armies in the north will meet this barbarian invader, and that Egyptain armies in the south will be able to secure their borders from this new and terrifying menace.

My main goal right now is to secure overseas trade through a new shipbuilding program and to secure trade in the Atlantic, thus repairing Spain's finances, and filling her coffers once more.

Yet, I cannot help but wonder what new and terrifying enemy will rise up against Spain in the years ahead. Spain has been at war for over 120 years. In all that time friends have become enemies and enemies have become friends. . .

I have no doubt that powerful European Monarchs will yet seek to lay claim to precious Spanish soil. . .

"Keep your friends close, but keep your sword closer. . ."

6) With my Spanish borders secure, and with relative control of the Med guaranteed, my goal is to conquer all of North Africa.

I have pledged to the Spanish king that I will not rest until I have planted the Spanish flag at the foot of the fabled Pyramids in Cairo; that no Spanish soldier will sleep until the army has bathed in the soothing springs at Mecca; and that no valiant men-at-arms will return to their beloved homes in Spain until they have stood before the great walls at Constantinople.

This I have sworn.

Your Obedient Servant,

Manuel Ortega Rodrigez
General of his Majesty's Armies in Africa

[Pericles]

I'll keep playing my current game, but I wanted to illustrate to others that whether you are playing a Mod or the default game, by simply adding more income to other factions, you will have a tougher game.

The extra income definitely allows the AI factions to build units and province improvements.

Playing other factions other than Spain (it has rich provinces), will also spice up the game.

Cheers!