That Crazy Pope

[Sensei Warrior]

Allright this is a simple one but its driving me nuts. The last 4 campaigns I've played the Pope has won. What I mean is I'll start a campiagn (in Early as the Spanish, Italians, Brits, and HRE and everything is going fine. I'm following all the rules with the Pope and haven't gotten excommed; when all of the sudden the Pope gets a bee in his funky hat and starts whackin away by the high era. Not necessarily me either.

This continues on until I die by excomm trying to defend my lands against the Pope or until he and I are the only 2 left.

Has this happened to anyone else?

[bretwalda]

Hmm, that seems strange. You you post screenshot/savegame? You mean the Pope owing half of the map and such?

Allright this is a simple one but its driving me nuts. The last 4 campaigns I've played the Pope has won. What I mean is I'll start a campiagn (in Early as the Spanish, Italians, Brits, and HRE and everything is going fine. I'm following all the rules with the Pope and haven't gotten excommed; when all of the sudden the Pope gets a bee in his funky hat and starts whackin away by the high era. Not necessarily me either.

This continues on until I die by excomm trying to defend my lands against the Pope or until he and I are the only 2 left.

Has this happened to anyone else?

[Sensei Warrior]

Yes the Pope owning half the map, but no I don't have a screenshot. The first time I thought it was odd, but it has happened to me so much I just thought it was routine if the game lasted into the high era.

The one where he owned half the map was while I was playing as the Brits. Italy conquered the Papacy. The Pope remerged, was put back down and then reemerged again. The second one stuck. The Pope then steamrolled over Italy, Sicily, HRE, and Hungary.

The one I am playing now I might have started, but it does seem like he becomes a real warmonger after he remerges. That was part of the reason I was wondering if it happened to others since it seems to happen to me especially if I play as a Catholic.

[bretwalda]

It never happened to me, however I realized that the Pope has the tendecy of attacking me if we share a border and I am at war with Catholics... Also seems to be willing to make a peace if I am no longer at war with my co-religionists and otherwise seems to be appropriate for him (e.g. I am bigger) But never seemed to be becoming a superpower - but I have to admit that I am blocking him by the high period usually...

[Ironside]

The re-emerging Pope can get quite strong, that's true.

The difference is that most players are in a very strong position by high, thus you'll end up in war with that power and win. So not many people experiences that situation.

[Sensei Warrior]

Then it must be me. Well I guess this could be put down as one of the crazy things to do. Conquer the Provinces around the Pope. Build like crazy. Smack the Pope around through a couple of emergences, then when he comes back with one honking huge army, emigrate to a nice safe local, like N. Africa. Then stay out of his way for a while while you build up your new local.

The Pope will start conquering everything, and building like crazy. He can turn into a huge behemoth if left unchecked. And fighting him in a prolonged battle is a pain in the hoop. Instant excomm, grumpy generals, and I suppose if you set him up right in the beginning one effective army.

If no one else has encountered it it might be fun for you. As for me I guess I'm going to have to change tactics.

[ichi]

As soon as all 4 of these conditions exist

1) I am able to destroy the Papal States (I am close enough, have the men, not desperately fighting someone else)

2) The Pope is starting to be a threat

3) The Pope is not holding an even bigger threat in check (for example, as Hungary the Pope can help keep the Italians busy so they not threaten me)

4) I get excommed

then I kill the Pope and wipe out his army, take all his provinces, raze all the buildings in (what was) the Pope's provinces, and then retreat back out, leaving the provinces to rebel and eventually allow the Pope to reemerge with more army than he can support - so he is essentially stuck there until the end of the game when I finish him off last.

If it happens too early he will recover somewhat, too late and he can be strong enough to make it hard.



ichi

[English assassin]

Ichi's technique is even better if you are a muslim, as you can previously seed Rome and the papal states with alims, so that when popey reemerges he gets an instant muslim rebellion. (This wasn't my idea originally but I tried it when i saw it posted elsewhere and its very funny)

Plus of course you can build a few jihads so whenever things are getting a bit quiet you can easily slap the pope around again to live things up.

[bretwalda]

I guess you can do the same with orthodox, too, as Byz... It's a pity that Byz can't crusade, but hell, history is so... Good idea!

[derF]

The Papacy is the most annoying enemy.

It has never occurred to me that the pope has gone on such a conquest. I am sick of playing as Catholic factions because sooner or later you WILL get excommed, whether youre at war or not.

As a result, my battles against the papacy are extra brutal.

[RobertTheBruce1]

It has come to my mind that the Pope is just a power-hungry guy who likes to excomm people. Whenever I play as any faction and kill or capture the Pope and the Papacy I have trouble controlling them. The Pope always rises up and attacks me, and if he dies another one takes his place. For this reason I have more troops in the heart of my territory than elsewhere

[Marquis de Said]

Ichi's technique is even better if you are a muslim, as you can previously seed Rome and the papal states with alims, so that when popey reemerges he gets an instant muslim rebellion. (This wasn't my idea originally but I tried it when i saw it posted elsewhere and its very funny)

Plus of course you can build a few jihads so whenever things are getting a bit quiet you can easily slap the pope around again to live things up.

LOL, slapping the Pope around is my exact tactic when the game happens to be quiet and I haven't fought any battles for a while. And as a Muslim, you want to take the Pope's provinces at some point so you can keep sending jihads their way.

[Sensei Warrior]

Thanks guys (and gals?). I hate dealing with the Pope about as much as I hate dealing with the Horde. They are both a real pain in the hoop. Both for the obvious reasons.

It would have been neat if when you conquered the Papacy they gave you some kind of perk. Like you being the only one able to Crusade. I mean it's not like he disappeared. You just threw a Pope up on the Throne that happened to be in your back pocket, right? Not that I'm a history buff, but it seems to be a little more historically accurate.

Then again what do I know. Most of the people kicking around these boards seem to all but have the game won by the high period. Usually by then I'm just starting to get the upper hand.

[bretwalda]

Thanks guys (and gals?). I hate dealing with the Pope about as much as I hate dealing with the Horde. They are both a real pain in the hoop. Both for the obvious reasons.

It would have been neat if when you conquered the Papacy they gave you some kind of perk. Like you being the only one able to Crusade. I mean it's not like he disappeared. You just threw a Pope up on the Throne that happened to be in your back pocket, right? Not that I'm a history buff, but it seems to be a little more historically accurate.

Yepp, it is a good idea, but I am afraid it cannot be modded into the game... I could even imagine that you could basically exercise the powers of the Pope: excommunicating anyone who gave valid pretext for that, give money from your coffers and ask for crusade.

Then again what do I know. Most of the people kicking around these boards seem to all but have the game won by the high period. Usually by then I'm just starting to get the upper hand.

Hmm, it is interesting. What level are you playing on? You are doing it right since you get to have more building up and also you can use all of the units of the eras... But for me usually the game is decided until the Horde is fought and destroyed, which is mid-high period. if I am correct.

[ichi]

Then again what do I know. Most of the people kicking around these boards seem to all but have the game won by the high period. Usually by then I'm just starting to get the upper hand.

IMHO the game isn't really about winning as fast as I can. I like to build up and progress as opportunities arise, but simply winning isn't my goal.

Several of my campaigns have ended just as time was running out - by then I can have developed my faction and have lots of neat toys to play with.

ichi

[Ash]

It would have been neat if when you conquered the Papacy they gave you some kind of perk. Like you being the only one able to Crusade. I mean it's not like he disappeared. You just threw a Pope up on the Throne that happened to be in your back pocket, right? Not that I'm a history buff, but it seems to be a little more historically accurate.

I'm not an expert on Papal history, but in medieval times Popes were sometimes expelled and pratically banished from Rome by invading factions (French and HRE).

There even was a time where there were 2 (and at one point three) Popes all excisting at once. This was called the Babylonian Captivity.

But the Pope never really disappeared so you could justify the pope reappearing every now and then like MTW does.

[Sensei Warrior]

Bret: I play all my games in Early Era on Normal difficulty.

Ichi: mental note: I promise to not make any more sweeping generalizations. Your tactics and my tactics seem to be very similar @ least from your posts they seem to be similar. Actually if the truth be known if I am looking for a new take on tactics and you threw in your take on it. I try your tactic first they tend to feel more natural for me.

I take a very moderate stance when I play. I typically don't blitz or turtle. I conquer a provence or the average every 5-8 years. That doesn't necessarily mean I don't take over a couple of prov. in a row or at the same time; I just don't make a habit of it.

I like the building aspects and the political aspects of the game as well. Developing my heirs, marrying of my princesses, and treating my allies as allies. By that I mean I expect my allies not to attack and I help them defend their own lands when I can.

Which is probably why the Pope drives me to drink. For being a religious man he tends to stab me in the back alot.

Not to mention I like getting the cool units in the end. The late period has alot of neat units that I like to have fun with.

With my pacing it is usually around the Horde attack that I am really coming into my own and starting to get on top of my master plan.

[ichi]

Sensei

I think we have much in common, and wish you well in your conquests

*bows*



ichi

[Sensei Warrior]

Ichi

May you reap all the blessings of glorious conquest.

Especially against the icky French.

[derF]

It has come to my mind that the Pope is just a power-hungry guy who likes to excomm people.

Youve just defined the Church as a whole.

[Ayachuco]

Sounds just like my Warrior Pope Leo VI in the year 1269.
I mean he was conquering like crazy, he conquered the HRE in about 17 years a reverse operation Barbarossa
I was the Danes and my vikings were not strong enough to kill the Pope and his royal knights in the battle of Bradenburg.
So I resulted to intrugue and sent my spies to discover his secret vices and discovered he was an alcoholic talk about the decline of the Church.
After humilating him , i assasinated him with my best assasin and then came the resurgent HRE except they remerge in Italy.
And with the help of Conad III, we were able to defeat the papal empire.

[Alexandr III. Biges]

Congratulations :)

Sounds just like my Warrior Pope Leo VI in the year 1269.
I mean he was conquering like crazy, he conquered the HRE in about 17 years a reverse operation Barbarossa
I was the Danes and my vikings were not strong enough to kill the Pope and his royal knights in the battle of Bradenburg.
So I resulted to intrugue and sent my spies to discover his secret vices and discovered he was an alcoholic talk about the decline of the Church.
After humilating him , i assasinated him with my best assasin and then came the resurgent HRE except they remerge in Italy.
And with the help of Conad III, we were able to defeat the papal empire.

[Sensei Warrior]

Welcome to the Forum Draconian. It makes me feel warm and fuzzy when someone makes their first post on one of my topics. Actually I think its the first topic I ever started.

Yes beware of Popes that wear funny hats they do crazy things like that when you're not looking. Unfortunately in my scenario my Pope got the best of me. I am glad you managed to smack him around, especially with the hidden vice thing. Very nice.

[Ash]

Maybe it's because I always start in Early, but in 90% of the game the Pope does Jack Shit and just sits there annoying me with excommunications.

Only if Italy falls in civil war do they pop out of Rome.

[Ayachuco]

Maybe it's because I always start in Early, but in 90% of the game the Pope does Jack Shit and just sits there annoying me with excommunications.

Only if Italy falls in civil war do they pop out of Rome.

When they pop out of Rome, you can manipulate the pope to your own intentions. HAHAHAHA
Once as the Byz. I was ready to deal with the Sicilian problem in Greece.
1st i sent my princess to marry the pope, took me 6 month before i found that loophole, and prevented the Sicilians to crusade against me. Then the pope attack Naples which help me get rid of their king in Greece and without any heirs, the Sicilian occupation in Greece was over.Then I conquered Italy but left Malta for the Pope to live, isolated on that pitiful island.

[Ayachuco]

Maybe it's because I always start in Early, but in 90% of the game the Pope does Jack Shit and just sits there annoying me with excommunications.

Only if Italy falls in civil war do they pop out of Rome.

When they pop out of Rome, you can manipulate the pope to your own intentions. HAHAHAHA
Once as the Byz. I was ready to deal with the Sicilian problem in Greece.
1st i sent my princess to marry the pope, took me 6 month before i found that loophole, and prevented the Italians to crusade against me. Then the pope attack Naples which help me get rid of their king in Greece and without any heirs, the Sicilian occupation in Greece was over.Then I conquered Italy but left Malta for the Pope to live, isolated on that pitiful island.

[Ash]

Then I conquered Italy but left Malta for the Pope to live, isolated on that pitiful island.

Malta wasn't a pitful island in Medieval times.

Sultan Suleyman II the Magnificant didn't waste his finest troops (Jannisaries) trying to capture that barren little rock just for the Hell of it...:)

[Sensei Warrior]

OK how do you get the Pope to marry one of your princesses? He's not suppose to marry, is he?

[bretwalda]

OK how do you get the Pope to marry one of your princesses? He's not suppose to marry, is he?

That's odd, but once I could do that with my Byz princess, too... Is that plainly random or there is a loophole to do that?

[Ayachuco]

OK how do you get the Pope to marry one of your princesses? He's not suppose to marry, is he?

Well he is not suppose to but he can do anything he wants. He just wants to trick you with that facade he is trying to pull off. But in order to marry him you have to place your princess on his emmisaries and hopefully he agrees to marry.