Roman Manipular Formation

[salemty]

what army should the manipular formation be used for?

[RLucid]

The point is to have a balanced army. That means :

MIssile troops - Javelins, Archers and slingers operate at a distance
Front line Infantry - Hold and fix enemy, swords better against enemy infantry, spearmen for enemy cavalry
Cavalry - harass enemy, take opportunities to charge rear/flank of engaged enemy, fight opposition cavalry

Reserve Infantry - deployed during battle to maximum effect, possibly flanking, or a trap for enemy cavalry, baited by a retreating unit, counter-attacks against infiltrating enemy etc etc

The lines held back, put enemy units that attempt to engage in a box, because the Romans have pila, they may also have opportunities to attack from range, and then charge in on tiring enemy units, who are close enough to be fatigueing due to stress, but not effectively engaged.

The AI does not really cause too many problems flanking, also I've found against British chariots, a deeper formation, heavy with Javellins works far more effetively, with shallower formations they'd chew up one wing, and rout many units, sometimes changing outcome of battle.

[MajorFreak]

he cohorts were further sub-divided into three maniples, which in turn were split into two centuries of about 60-100 men each
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the 'posterior' century would march to the left and then forward so that they presented a solid line, creating a solid line of soldiers.

So that's the checkerboard theory in practice when it came to "what happens on the FRONT line then?" question. Kinda difficult to do with RTW because i read a rumor on these forums somewhere about 5 ranks being perfect for boosting morale (which is apparently waaaay more important than fatigue) - although i can see widening the formation an equivalent version i've never tried...i just tended to pick a formation type before battle and went with it throughout.

hmmmm...oh, and my current pick for legionary armies is checkerboard.

<-----SS-----> (single line, loose & hold)
V...L...L...L...V
..U...L...L...U..
<---AAAA---> (single line)
C..G...*...G..C

2Spear Auxiliaries
2Velites
5Legionaries
2Urban cohorts
2Cavalry (legionary)
4Archers
2Gladiators

I still believe in the Cannae tactic working just fine. If the archers don't deal with it, and the front legionaries with velite flankers fail to break the enemy, i depend on the second line being able to crumple just enough so the superior urban cohorts envelope the enemy. Personally, if i'm in that sort of situation it's pretty desperate and my cavalry are definitely needed to help attack the rear of the enemy while engaged.

LOOSE and HOLD with pila enabled only when the unit is itself engaged is key to dealing with Phalanx...otherwise i think loose and hold is counterproductive for legionaries. Although for my spear auxiliaries it's the name of the game for them at the front (i swear by them especially when they have temple of Ares morale boosts)

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a while ago i swore by a blobbed formation in the center using hoplites, arcani and peasants for dealing with cavalry charges that had a tendency to break up the hoplites...worked great! except, well, we're talking about legionaries here aren't we? lol...so enough about me and my hoplite, cretan mercenaries and those yummy merc elephants

[Big Bear]

Hi, I did a little research into this a few years ago. The maniple was divided into two along the lines of it's century each actually eighty strong, these were prior front and posterior (unfortunate name) which meant rear. When lining for battle one was placed behind the other, but they would close together for combat Posterior moving forward to fill the gap. The reason for the formation was to allow other troops to pass quickly through the line. Either skirmishing Veletes or other Legionaries. In the time of the mid-republic when it operated, it was normally lined up 12, deep 1200 strong for Hatati and Princepes, and 6 and 600 for the Triaria, who in theory, were the older men and were to cover a retreat, for the younger and less likely to have had a family members of the legion. So three lines of equal width. The three Legionary lines were in a chequer board? formation with the preceding line facing the gap in the line in front. Though they were used in other ways as commanders thought fit. It could be used as a tactical unit, but normally it's function was as above.

The common misconception was that each line had large gaps when closed for combat, which would lead to tragic consequences. in fact it presented a single battle-line and stems from omitting the function of the Centuries, Prior and Posterior in to an analysis of things. And it was a system designed to allow movement through the lines rather than to fight with gaps in the line. It was used tactical occasionally but infrequently, it's main effect was as above.

It started to fall out of use during the later republic when the Cohort (Originally a recruiting unit, which had little relevance on the battlefield) came to the fore. Truncating initially the Hastata. Princepes and the Triaria into the same unit, though they remained defined as part of the Cohort system but within the same battlefield unit. This took place round about the time of the Marian reforms, actually predating it in effect by some years. The Velites were eventualy incorporated in the same way, but lingered on for a few more decades after, because they were A. The Legions main source of light troops and B. Their training was different and more difficult to incorporate into a single unit.

In terms of RTW, perhaps, two lines of 6 deep Hastata and Princepes, with a 3 deep line of Triaria, Veletes out front, Cavalry on the flank. There were battles where the Maniple acted independently, but I think this would be difficult to represent in the game, effectively the game only allows 20 units, which would have to be very small. The only other thing, I could think might work was if it was done as a formation thing, the units lined up in small groups behind each other, then hit a formation change button and they start to form a single line with the forward of the two groups.

But as general comment lining the Roman's up in multiple lines works a treat anyway and is close to the way the Legion of the Maniple system worked. So the game is pretty fair anyway.

Big Bear

PS excuse the spellings if wrong a case of dyslexia rules KO