City gates - a right royal pain in the bum

[eadingas]

I only use gate attack as decoy attack. Always try to break the walls to the left and right of the gate - with rams on palisades or with saps/siege engines on walls - and then attack through the gaps with elite troops, while sending all the cannon fodder at the gate where it binds the defenders. Then it's just a matter of sandwiching the enemy from both sides.
I noticed Elephants often run amok right after entering through the gate. Wonder what's the deal with that.

[rebelscum]

Maybe elephants don't like boiling oil on their backs. I know I don't. Or it could be an elephant form of claustrophobia.
Your multi-entrance approach sounds good. I notice the AI waits several turns and builds multiple rams. I just haven't got the patience sometimes, especially when the enemy has a large stack approaching from the north. I would rather be in the city drinking tea when they get here, rather than face a bunch of starving defenders, pissed off from a year of sitting in a rat infested town 'and' an army of crack troops.
Another thing, in MTW you could surround a city, with RTW you can only place on 3 sides. This gives any re-enforcing troops a great avenue to stroll in through the back door if you aren't quick enough.
On a similar note, I assume sieging a city causes devastation and squalor within (it does when I am seig-ed). Is this enough to make the city rebel?, and if so would the defenders suddenly be popped out into the open arms of my army.

[eadingas]

As for elephants: I noticed them getting wild even if there are no defenders on the walls anymore. Even if the gate tower is ruined by onager fire. It wouldn't be weird otherwise. And the amok doesn't last very long... just enough to ruin your chances of getting into the city in an orderly fashion :)
The spy sitting in a city is supposed to open the gates for you if you're lucky... but somehow, it never happened to me, even if I had 50% chance of it happen. I don't even know how it looks like when he does that...
One thing I found very annoying about sieging: if you auto-resolve the siege, the buildings inside get randomly damaged. Even if you're not carrying any siege weapons, and even if it's farms and roads that get damaged. That is a damn bug if I've ever seen one!

[R'as al Ghul]

The spy sitting in a city is supposed to open the gates for you if you're lucky... but somehow, it never happened to me, even if I had 50% chance of it happen. I don't even know how it looks like when he does that...

It even happens when it's only a 35 or 40 % chance. It may not work on the first turn, though. Visually it's indicated by an open gate (middle right), displayed on the pre-battle screen where you decide which siege-gear you're building. Sometimes the gates only get opened on the second turn, i.e. you have already build rams etc. and decide to attack, only to discover that now the gates are open. On the battle-map you'll see that all four gates are cracked and you can march right in. The huge advantage is that the AI will try to defend all 4 gates.
@rebelscum,
I had a lot of fun reading your post. I've been there. Others already mentioned it, you need to build more than one ram. For wooden walls I ususally build 3 rams. One for the gate, the other two on the right and left side of the gate. For larger walls I like sap points, towers and ladders. Rams are cheap and if you bring enough troops (10+ units), they should be able to build 3 in 1 turn.

R'as

[rebelscum]

*Reads from The Zen guide to RTW Generalship*
Elephants also continue to run amok if they have run amok during a previous battle and you haven't had the heart to put them down with your generals special ability, kill elephants running amok (soon to be included generals special ability: kill that bloody bloke on the scythe chariot who decimates my armies for no apparent reason). So correct deployment of amok elephants must be considered before the battle. Next to crack infantry is a no-no, behind you is definitely out , behind enemy lines would be good but sadly not an option, loading them into onagers and flinging them over the walls at the enemy would be ace (*legionary shades eyes to the sun* Hey Spurius, is it my imagination or does that large dark blob flying towards us look curiously like an amok elephant? *mad elephant trumpets in the air*, by the breasts of Juno your right Lentulus, it does look curiously like an amok eleph .. *splat*).
Elephants are expensive, if you cannot train them and were awarded them/merced them they are priceless), so having to 'put them down' is a bit harsh, a severe telling off and a cut in peanut rations would suffice.

[eadingas]

Hmmm I'm beginning to think a Monty Python Mod would be a good idea... with siege towers in the shape of giant rabbit, and onager missiles looking remarkably like cows...

[rebelscum]

Run away! Run away!

[Ragnor_Lodbrok]

Hmmm I'm beginning to think a Monty Python Mod would be a good idea... with siege towers in the shape of giant rabbit, and onager missiles looking remarkably like cows...

Brave sir Robin insteading of routing troops.

[rebelscum]

Yeah and they can all shout 'no I didn't'

[Red Harvest]

Elephants also continue to run amok if they have run amok during a previous battle and you haven't had the heart to put them down with the generals special ability, kill elephants running amok (soon to be included generals special ability: kill that bloody guy on the sythe chariot who decimates your armies for no apparent reason). So correct deployment of amock elephants must be considered before the battle. Next to crack infantry is a no-no, behind your general is definately out :(, behind enemy lines would be good but sadly not an option, loading them into onagers and flinging them over the walls at the enemy would be ace (Hey Spurius, is it my imagination or does that large shape flying towards us look curiously like an amok elephant, *mad elephant trumpets in the air*, by the breasts of juno your right Lentulus, it does look curiously like an amok eleph .. *splat*). Elephants are expensive (if you can't build them and were awarded them/merced them they are priceless), so having to 'put them down' is a bit harsh, a severe telling off and a cut in peanut rations would suffice.

Man, that was funny. I'm in tears. I particularly like the "by the breasts of Juno" reference.

[Mikeus Caesar]

The posts in this topic are hilarious....especially the first one.

'it does look curiously like an amok eleph .. *splat*'

[rebelscum]

Getting into city gates is no longer my pet hate.
This has been replaced by another annoying thing, this time so much to the human players benefit.
Playing Egypt on Huge/VH/VH, I have now got used to being sieged by the Seleucids. They seem to round up every able spearman they can find and attack my large town Damascus. As soon as they siege I sally, but I stay in my town, and group all non missile troops in the middle. I place my archers stategicly around the place, bowmen, chariots and bedouin archers. Now if the AI had any semblance of a brain, it would think twice before attacking (Lt. Erm General sir, if we go near the walls without any seige equipment or countermeasures against the archers, we are going to get our arses shot off. Gen: Never mind that, I have a cunning plan.)
But more often than not, the opposing general moves all his troops towards the town. On occasion they have just stood out of range looking aggressive. All I then do is send some skirmishers out a side gate, which usually gets their interest. Lo and behold the spearmen march straight up to the fence and stand there. I sit back and listen to the sweet music of arrows wishing over the fence. The slow moving pikemen are soon cut to pieces. Even when a unit is down to its last few men, it never budges. This saddens me so much to think that such a great game is spoilt by such a silly AI.
(Lt: So what was your cunning plan general? Gen: Oh why don't you sod off!)
1232 - 0 was the last score. I'm glad to see in the enemys next stack they actually have some archers.

[Celt Centurion]

The spy sitting in a city is supposed to open the gates for you if you're lucky... but somehow, it never happened to me, even if I had 50% chance of it happen. I don't even know how it looks like when he does that...

If the spy does not get thrown out on his butt, (mine usually does), just as you begin an assault, and you have the screen to "fight on battle map", or "autoresolve", there will be a picture on the right side of that panel of a stone wall with an open gate, and text telling you that the gates will be open.

Usually, I prefer to put lots of siege towers, at least 6, more if I think to make more during a siege, and put men directly over the gate, even if it is open, which will keep boiling oil out of your collar. Last night, I did it differently, and just charged through the gate, expecting losses, but fortunately for me that time, no boiling oil came down.

Anyway, just look for the "open gate" picture just before you choose how to resolve the battle.

Strength and Honor

Celt Centurion

[rebelscum]

The spy sitting in a city is supposed to open the gates for you if you're lucky... but somehow, it never happened to me, even if I had 50% chance of it happen. I don't even know how it looks like when he does that...

If the spy does not get thrown out on his butt, (mine usually does), just as you begin an assault, and you have the screen to "fight on battle map", or "autoresolve", there will be a picture on the right side of that panel of a stone wall with an open gate, and text telling you that the gates will be open.

Celt Centurion

General's Speech: Ok men, when we get to the city, my spy network should have the gate open making it a cakewalk for us to rush in and take the walls and the main courtyard. An easy victory awaits!
Army: Rowdy cheers.

*an hour later*
General: *proud* My men are almost at the walls, the gate should be opening just about .. now ... *nothing happens*
about ... 'now' ... *still nothing happens*
.... NOW *nada*

*tap tap on Generals shoulder*
General: Whaaaa,
Spy: Sssarry bhasss, I ssshouldn't creep up on you like that.
General: *aghast* Why aren't you in the city opening the gates ...
Spy: Sssarry bhasss, I fell asssleep, and when I woke up I was out on my asssss.

[Celt Centurion]

General's Speech: Ok men, when we get to the city, my spy network should have the gate open making it a cakewalk for us to rush in and take the walls and the main courtyard. An easy victory awaits!
Army: Rowdy cheers.

*an hour later*
General: *proud* My men are almost at the walls, the gate should be opening just about .. now ... *nothing happens*
about ... 'now' ... *still nothing happens*
.... NOW *nada*

*tap tap on Generals shoulder*
General: Whaaaa,
Spy: Sssarry bhasss, I ssshouldn't creep up on you like that.
General: *aghast* Why aren't you in the city opening the gates ...
Spy: Sssarry bhasss, I fell asssleep, and when I woke up I was out on my asssss.

Something like that.


Celt Centurion