City gates - a right royal pain in the bum

[Mikeus Caesar]

if they are killed off quickly, the rest of the said unit gets an acute attack of ladderitis

That's damn annoying!! That's happened to me before, until the people on the ground just stay there, as if their sandals have melted and stuck to the ground. Even when the enemy starts clambering down the ladders (why do they do that? They're trying to defend the city, not abandon it) my men just stand there and get slaughtered.

[rebelscum]

10 Reasons for defenders climbing down ladders:
1. They are deserters.
2. Haven't seen a ladder before and would like to try it out.
3. Happy hour just started at the local pub.
4. Just following orders sir!
5. Vertigo (I gotta get down, please let me get down, pleeeeze)
6. Just for fun (Wheeeeee. You gotta try this out guys)
7. Got bored waiting for the enemy.
8. Down is the new up.
9. Simon says.
10. I'm telling you its a shortcut, now stop wingeing.
Good spot Mikeus.

[Mikeus Caesar]

5. Vertigo (I gotta get down, please let me get down, pleeeeze)

Usually when that happens, they just jump off the walls instead. Sometimes they all turn into lemmings, so entire archer units jump off at the beginnings of battles.

[rebelscum]

Mercenary lemmings, available for hire in any province that has cliffs.

[Zharakov]

Rebelscum, you should be a comedian.

My most hated thing in RTW is... ONAGERS.

I mean come on, it isnt rocket science to figure out how to make a rock go 20 meters into the wall of an enemy city...

My favorite incedence seige with onagers went some thing like this... *Me Carthage... Them Egypt*

General: Ok men, that the seige towers to the walls!
Tower 1: HEEV... HOOO... HEEV... HOO.. WTF? Why is it on fire? *AHHHHH*
Tower 2: Heay... quit moveing the tower, and watch the other tower burn to the gound... lets all point fingers and laugh...
General: I'm comanding idoits. Ok ONAGERS OPENFIRE!!!
Onager crew: Ok boss...
*CABOOO*
General: NO!!! NOT OUR MEN!!!
*bye now the Egyptians are laguphing their arses off at the fact I had just shelled my own men...*
General: Ok Ragnar the Clumsey...try and hit THE WALL
Ragnar: Yes sir... Ok Hagar the Horible aim... take aim.
Hagar: *cross eyed* right away sirs... Dam I wish the wall would stop moveing...

Morel of the story... Make sure your men can count their toes on their finders while blinking and breathing at the same time...

[Saracen_Warrior]

In 7th grade, their was always an ancient history fair. Me and a buch of my friends looked up how to build a trebuchet so we built one for our project. No one thouhght it would work, sicne it has the swiging rope and doesnt look like normal catapult. Well, our first tennis ball went no where, it stayed in the puch. So we loosened the puch. We had jsut tied it wrong, but everyone was laughing(we were all cruel in 7th grade). Well i the second one went straight up, so we adjusted the rope, it went backwards, we legthened it, because that makes it go further(We had shotened it before). Eventually we got it going really far and some people atually thought it was pretty neat. WE had put out rope designating our lane of fire. The stupid principle didnt think we could launch it thta far and was standing talking in our lane of fire. We fired one more time semi hoping to hit him. CAll it luck or whatever it hit the principle in the head.

Morale of the story, once youve praactised a little it really not very hard to hit even a skinny jerk princicple, it should be easy enough to hit a 100 foot wall that stretches for another 200 feet. Trebuchets were probable harder to aim than an onager anyways. Too much lead in the Romans water a guess.

[Smaug-V]

I can't remember the last time I actually assaulted a city i was besieging. The entire process reduces me to a broken man every time. It takes SOOO long to get even a few troops inside the city, and negotiating the city streets is a pain in the arse. Much easier to wait for the army to starve or, even better, for them to send a full stack to break the siege. You can sit on the defensive, decimate both armies (hopefully), and take the city.

[eadingas]

The battle timer is a pain in sieges. I like using saps most in sieges, but I have to make two attempts at assaulting - in first battle I sap the walls, in second I charge, because otherwise I don't have enough time...

[rebelscum]

Anybody wishing to build and test out an onager by firing it at their enemy (tax office, bosses house, school etc etc), can find all they need to know in this handy book.
The Art of the Catapult: Build Greek Ballistae, Roman Onagers, English Trebuchets, and More Ancient Artillery
http://www.campusi.com/isbn_1556525265.htm
It's a good read, I give it five FTFOTS (firey things flying out of the sky) out of ten on the AWOMDB (ancient weapons of mass destruction books) scale.

[rebelscum]

The battle timer is a pain in sieges. I like using saps most in sieges, but I have to make two attempts at assaulting - in first battle I sap the walls, in second I charge, because otherwise I don't have enough time...

I'm sure this has something to do with the total number of units in the battle. As I play with huge unit size, I normally take a full stack. I wonder if you tried pad out your stack with peasants you might have enough time to do both in the one go.
[Handy tip]
If you are a fan of suicidal peasant rushes as I am, send a spy into the city to open the gates, and rush the peasants through them to soak up the boiling oil, a sort of human oilcloth so to speak. I don't know if there is a limit to the amount of boiling oil those gates produce, but I like watching helpless peasantry running around on fire anyway. One thousand peasant lives for a few minutes of distraction while my crack troops climb the wall is a good trade off in any case. See 'Sadistically Evil Genius Generals Handbook' Chapter 4 'How to win a battle with as much bloodshed as possible'
(No this book doesn't actually exist, before people start posting me asking for a copy )

[eadingas]

Yeah, I used the 'spy opens the gates' trick. Once. It was fun.
After a quickload, I told my spy to buzz off, and proceeded with the usual sapping and ladders business.

[rebelscum]

General: Right which one of you slackers left the gate open?
Guard 1: Wasn't me boss.
Guard 2: Not me boss.
Guard 3: It fassent meh bhass.
General: And I thought I ordered two man teams to guard the gate, don't you plebs ever listen! ... Oy you guard #3 in the cloak, come back ere.

[Mikeus Caesar]

The first time i put a spy in a city, i was expecting him to open the gates for me. The following battle went something like this:

General: Alright men!! Charge to the gates, and they shall open for you!!!
Soldiers: Erm...okay.
*soldiers run to the gate, avoiding kamikaze lemming archers on the way*
Soldier 1: I wonder what those pipes above the gate are for?
Soldier 2: Maybe we can find out once we've plundered and pillaged and got drunk!!
soldier 1: Okay then, but i have another question. Isn't that boiling hot oil coming out of the pipes?
Soldier 2: Nah, they're probably welcoming us with a wonderful fragranced bath, full of healthy lead.
soldier 1: Well if you s-*they run under the oil*-AAAAAAARGH!!! IT BURNS!!!!! Damn my AI incompetence!!! *dies*
soldier 2: Hey look, here comes our suicidal extra general!!! No general, don't run into the oil!!!
*nearby scream as general is incinerated*

[Cornflower]

Thats why they call those snake paths.

Anytime you siege you want atleast 3 times the number of the enemy. Second you want mutiple Breaches. without them you will loose more men and the enemy can bottleneck you.

I found it you have a mod or fix the hardy heat bugs and then played as they would back then in tactics you will do well. If you play like an RTS and just build and rush you will lose men and possible get AI path issue which will result in maybe you losing a possible overwelming win.

Lt

Errr... Huh? "hardy heat bugs"?

I suppose there's a link somewhere? Help? Please?

[rebelscum]

What! You mean to say you've never heard of 'hardy heat bugs'! Where have you been man, the moon?

[Cornflower]

What! You mean to say you've never heard of 'hardy heat bugs'! Where have you been man, the moon?

Now, really... If you bother to post, why not post the answer... How rude!


Or, could it be that you have no idea what I'm talking about? Hmm?

[Khorak]

My assaults on cities have very, very often degenerated into the utter destruction of the thin line of sanity between me and the incomprehensible rage that dominates most of my brain. If there's no-one in the house, such roars of utter hatred and contempt of the AI programmers life emanate from within my home that even a Khornate Daemon Prince would be cowed.

When I order a line of men outside the plaza in preparation for a charge is the worst. Maybe my computer is sentient and hates me. Or more likely, the people in charge of the AI need to be horrifically brutalised, and airdropped directly on the South Pole from ten thousand feet up with lead shoes. But either way I have caused the small children outside to stop their game of football in shock when my barbaric roar comes out the window because my guys have decided it would be a fantastic idea to simply march straight past where they're meant to be, a place still a bright cheery yellow so they know they're meant to be there, and just wander into the plaza. Usually immediately provoking a massive charge from the defenders with all sorts of infantry and cavalry. Having had heavy casualties forced upon me by the unreasoning worthlessness of the AI, I then get to order a full attack and watch as the pathfinding seems to consider the plaza as unbreachable except by very specific areas, so they all run off whilst getting murdered.

[Shahed]

ROFLMFAO !
I just woke the whole neighbourhood... this thread is CRACKING ME UP !

[Ar7]

You said it, I liked the part about three guards at the gates the most

[Didz]

A wise man never enters a city through its gate, even if it is conveniently open.

Tzu Sun (well he would have said it, if he had played RTW)

[rebelscum]

Now, really... If you bother to post, why not post the answer... How rude!


Or, could it be that you have no idea what I'm talking about? Hmm?

Didn't you detect the hint of sarcasm in my tone. I haven't heard of 'hardy heat bugs' either, hence the joke.

[rebelscum]

My assaults
..
pathfinding seems to consider the plaza as unbreachable except by very specific areas, so they all run off whilst getting murdered.

Yes the pathfinding is dire. Ok so maybe ordering your whole army to run to the centre of the city is a bit much. But even if you set waypoints, more often than not the units go into confused mode.

Ok here is another niggle. When I have breached the walls I would like one unit to climb up the nearest tower and silence it. Now this only seems to work with the towers next to the gates. On one occasion I had made a hole in the far right hand corner of the city, ordered my troops in unopposed. Then I tried to get a unit up to silence the next tower. They just stood there being shot at and would not climb up onto the battlement, they weren't in skirmish mode either. So all I can think of is that they were just plain idle.
(General: Ok men, we're in, you skirmishers take the tower and run on to take the gate.
Idle skirmisher: *pushes someone forward* Go on then, you first.
Pushed skirmisher: Not me, I've got a sore foot.
General: Get moving, take that damn tower they are shooting at my bodyguard.
Idle Skirmisher: Does he have to shout?
Random skirmisher: Yes I'm getting a bit sick of that myself, lets ignore him completely.
General *arrow pings off helmet*: Bloody hell, move it you dogs!
Idle skirmisher: *pushes someone else forward* Better do as he says.
Pushed skirmisher: Gerroff, I'm knackered.
Genreal: *Clutches at arrow in chest* urghhhhhh!
Idle skirmisher: Couldn't have happened to a better person. Right lads, who's for a beer.
Skirmishers together: Beer .. beer .. beer.)

[Cornflower]

Didn't you detect the hint of sarcasm in my tone. I haven't heard of 'hardy heat bugs' either, hence the joke.

Well... I wasn't really sure, so I was kinda semi-sarcastic back at ya. Nevermind. Just ignore me until I go away.

[Simetrical]

The hardiness/heat bug is the bug that causes supposedly hardy units to tire more quickly than ordinary peasants, and supposedly heat-prone units to tire less quickly in heat than supposedly heat-resistant ones.

-Simetrical

[rebelscum]

Thanks for clearing that up! I thought they were some sort of alien life form that had invaded RTW! I was going to set the wardogs on them!

[Cornflower]

The hardiness/heat bug is the bug that causes supposedly hardy units to tire more quickly than ordinary peasants, and supposedly heat-prone units to tire less quickly in heat than supposedly heat-resistant ones.

-Simetrical

Right. Now, how to fix this?

[rebelscum]

Search me, I suppse we wait till mid January for the patch then start moaning again straight afterwards.

[rebelscum]

Well its a year since I first bought the game, and nothing much has changed. A patch or two later and were at the first expansion.
This is my first post in 6 months, anyone still here?
Has anyone seen my Diary of a Diplomat post. I think some genius moved it to a story forum. Tat was my Opus magna so if anyone knows where it is let me know,
cheers,
RS

[Doug-Thompson]

The thing I miss most about M:TW is the trebuchet. Threads like this remind me.

And Jihads. Forgot Jihads.

[Hold Steady]

LOL rebelscum, this is great stuff.

I have a simmering spot of red hot hatred for each of these points you mentioned too. Especially the waiting-game all units seem to have to enter open door-towers who are perfectly well straight in front of them. Now, if the weather was especially wonderfull, and no lifethreatening objects were flying through the sky and men would be reluctant to enter clammy damp towers, and there wasn't any particular battle to be won, I could imagine idling on the courtyard.

General: YOU there, into the tower! on the double!
Soldier 1: He's meaning us, I'll tell ya
Sarge: Right, you heared him! Get moving.
Soldier 1: Shee, yep it's us allright. There's a complete army allready standing here and guess who get to climb that mother. Us again.
Soldier 2: Aint that the truth..
Sarge: Quit talking and start those legs or I'll have you thrown of the wall!
Soldier 1: No, we won't. We like it out here.
Sarge: You WHAT?
Soldier 1: Like I said, we like it out here. We aint gonna climb no stupid towers just to get some lone archer and change the flag! Why allways do what you or that pimped up noisy dude want? We allways have to do these stupid sightseeing things. We come to a strange land, you pratically dragged us across godforsaken desert for years, from stinking town to a hell of boatride I certainly do not wish to repeat! I mean who the hell has to pull his own oars?! And then we get here, we got to do these stupid things like running up musty towers! And when we get there? what then, get back down on the double I presume?! No siree, not this time, you wanna enjoy the sight of these walls, climb 'em yourself you you you frog-faced loud-mouth
Soldier 2: Yeah.
Sarge: *speechlessly balancing between utter confusion and malignious anger*
Soldier 1: And one other thing, you tell this chap of yours, you know, with the silly helmet with all the red fluffy stuff coming out of it that we don't wanna pull the lead anymore. Sure we'd like to travel. That's what the ad said 'come conquer with us, be a man, see the world, slap a barbarian once or twice'. Well, that slapping has been quite reciprocal I must say. So if you and mister Funny dude here wanne get somewhere pronto, go ahead! We'll catch up, no need to worry about us! See how you like it, prodding barbarians out of muddy huts. Aint no stick long enough for that!
Soldier 2: Sure isn't.
Sarge: Okay, let's be democratic, I've been in Rome, I know the works.. Listen you two slime: if you two don't get up there first, with all our troops halfway now, there's gonna be a vote: who of you two get to be next to deliver the declaration of end-of-friendly-proceedings to the next of sorry ass barbarian scum. So, any volunteers?
Soldier1: Oh you mean thát tower?
Soldier2: that's not high at all..
Soldier1: *Hurrying off with nr 2* I told ya that tower was easy, I bet the view from there is fantastic! Imagine! all the dust clouds we can see on the horizon! Hey you lot, get out of our way, no time to hesitate here, are we the only hero's here? bugger off! Caius, clear us a path!
Soldier2: You bet!