Danish threat to the HRE

[Hold Steady]

I'm currently playing HRE expert in Early, slightly modded, gave everyone but myself 50000 starting capital to improve quality of opposing troops and improve overall performance.
(I thought about lowering trade income and upping agriculture income to let the AI benefit from this, but I couldn't find the stats that quickly and I wanted to play, not to spend my time modding. Gonna download the XL mod one day, but need a broadband connection for that..)

anyhow, I am improving infrastructure throughout the empire: building forts, keeps, mines, agriculture, ports for trade and a bit of troops: spearmen, archers and slav warriors (I'm aiming for the Swabian swordsmen, but I gather I need castle fore that, Swabia is 4 years into building a keep). I quicly build an Inn in Tyrolia and contracted a byz infantry and two units of arabian swordsmen. With them and my own spearmen/Urban militia/archer armies I attacked Italy, taking Venice and Milan. It was a split decision really, thought I could use the rich Italian provinces and hold of my other neighbours. Thing is, the Pope is complaining as usual, so I better end it quick, which is hard for sardinia and corsica are still Italian and I don't have a navy yet. Worse problem, as allways, the danish stack is growing every turn. I have a lot of spearmen and a few vikings in saxony, and an archer unit, but I will need at least a king or heir with full complement to lead the gang in case of an attack and more archers. And still I fear the outcome (well, fear, in a matter of speaking off course). Don't have a lookout tower yet, what does a usual early danish stack consist of? A zillion heirs? Vikings? Huscarles?
And from the stories I hear here, they will attack won't they?

[mfberg]

Heirs, thralls, spearmen, and (if they are being smart) vikings and archers. They are dangerous if you don't have an army there to dissuade them, but they may ignore you for a little while as they subjugate the peninsula.

mfberg

[_Aetius_]

Every time i go the Holy Roman empire, I make sure before anything else that i have well guarded frontiers, substantial armies at Saxony, Austia, Lorraine, and Burgundy. These armies should meet the threats of hungary, france and the danes, i develop swabia, and make my capital switzerland which i have as a citadel very early on.

I expand to pomerania and possibly prussia if i can, spreading my heirs out throughout the empire, as they are capable generals.

The Danes, arent a big threat, but if they have some success, your more powerful neighbours may decide to take advantage of the weakness and invade.

Danish armies if they have conquered, sweden and norway, will be relatively advanced, if they have just denmark, then itll be lots of royal knights, spearmen, archers and a few vikings.

Just reinforce it with a general who has some ability and a substantial force of feudal sergeants and archers and itll be ok.

[ichi]

Of all the factions AI I have been most disappointed by the Danes. In almost every campaign I have played the Danes built Vikings in Norway and Royals in Denmark, and it appears that they have a cash flow crisis (prolly due to the high cost of Royals?) then just sit there.

Keep a decent anti-cav force in Saxony (is it Saxony that abuts Denmark?) and you be OK.

ichi

[Procrustes]

I've always found the Dane's to be dissapointing - they never do anything on their own and are always deeply in debt after a few years. (I use the -ian switch to get them to invade Sweden when I think of it.)

But you may have a different situation on your hands - by giving them 50K to start they are apt to build a decent army. Doubt they'll be overly-agressive, but I think it was a good way to prompt them a bit.

Just my two cents.... Best,

P.

[Mega Dux Bob]

Unless you're playing with some restriction like will not attack unless attacked why haven't you taken the Demark? Great place for the HRE; protects Saxony, great for trading and lots of money. Just perfect for getting you going for the Rome March.

[Sensei Warrior]

To me the Danes don't seem to be terribly aggressive, but you did give them a good deal more money. When they attack in my games it is usually to grab sweden and norway. They typically don't get much farther.

IMO if they have not acquired sweden and noway then you have some breathing room, but if they did you better take drastic measures fast to shore up your border.

[Alexandr III. Biges]

Gonna download the XL mod one day, but need a broadband connection for that..)

No, you don't need. I downloaded the lite version (no music added, but the music isn't worth the size) with 5kbs GPRS connections. I took a few hours, but that's not too much.

[Bobablooie]

I love playing the Danes, and when I do, I usually blitz Scandanavia and then just build fleets/trade and decide where to strike next. When the HRE (inevitably) hemorrages, I grab Saxony and then usually sit tight until I subjugate England.
BTW: XL mod makes playing the Danes harder for several reasons:
1. Bug in current version that gives no valor bonus to Vikings produced in Norway (or for Highlanders in Scotland). **Viking Horde is aware of this and is working on an update.**
2. Less income from trade. This makes it more profitable to go after the Baltic regions or Friesland/Flanders for arable farmland.
3. Swedish are a faction, not just rebels. If you don't KO them early, they get mighty strong and will tie you up and leave you weak.
4. (Re this thread) HRE is besotted by feisty factions, esp the Bohemians and Burgundians, who cause the HRE dismemberment even earlier, thus making an advance into Germany more tempting.

When I've played as the HRE, the Danes usually wait until I've pulled troops from Saxony to fight the French/Poles to then attack and seize it. They usually advance no further, tho.

[Hold Steady]

Unless you're playing with some restriction like will not attack unless attacked why haven't you taken the Demark? Great place for the HRE; protects Saxony, great for trading and lots of money. Just perfect for getting you going for the Rome March.

Well, it's on my list, it sure is, except I got into a fight with the Italians first, and the French thought Friesland and Lorraine would look better in blue so I had to give 'm a good kicking. Of course The Pope got in between so now I finally have the Italian Peninsula, The Italians and the Pope gone, only the italians reemerged with a zillion Men at arms on Corsica without a single ship, so it says 'zombie island' now in the travel brochures.. I kindda try to avoid it for a few centuries, let the sicilians have it, or the Almohads for all I care.

So, while I was building up a good fighting relationship with the French (still having a very modest infrastructure, mounted sergants, feudal sargs, or men at arms at best. Royal court being build, as well as a castle in swabia, for the swabian swordsmen), the Hungarians decided Bohemia was a good place for growing peppers and so the place 2 be. I disagree, so them viking will have to wait a bit more. But a decade or so ago, while I was carving up the pope (it's just a drag with them excomm revolts, so I reckoned he had to see his boss), I saw the Danish King going up north, and he hasn't returned, so the Danes are making the best of their pan-scandinavian thing.. Their numbers in Denmark have dwinled because of this.. I wonder if I can miss the recources to attack them soon. First I'm going to deal with those ^%$ French and Hungarian backstabbing turds. After that I'll probably meet up with England, or reemerging frenchies or something.. ahh whatever..