Wardogs- Too powerful or not?

[Didz]

Well as already stated the dogs I read about were indeed decked out in armour which covered their entire back and head and was supplanted by a vertical blade.

It doesn't really make much sense for them not to be protected with at least padded armour.

[Red Harvest]

Has anyone thought about whether the stats in the unit details scroll is for the dogs or the handlers? I dont think dogs wear armour...

Their are two entries for all mount units. One is for the soldiers, the other the mount, for wardogs:
stat_pri_armour 7, 3, 0, metal
stat_sec_armour 2, 1, flesh

[The Ronin]

Some great ideas here that I haven't tried. I almost always add a dog unit or two (preferably) to my campaign armies or custom battles. They are a "one shot" deal to be sure but when used I find them pretty effective. I didn't know they would work well against phalanx formations or city entries. I like using them against lighter infantry flanking my lines or especially in launching them from the woods into the enemy flank or rear. I also like the fact that once "let loose" they will not stop attacking enemy troops. Of course there is no control once you let them go, but I'm not trying to use them as I would a "regular" army unit. I played a historical battle Tuetoborg Forrest and the germans launched dogs against me in which I actually killed them off pretty well. Don't know if the AI is using them differently or what is going on there, but when I use them they work pretty good. Once again, they are only a "part" a combined armed force strategy.

[Arrowhead]

I love Wardogs! I kinda like your way of thinking, Asimov!

I just get them to Chhhhhhhhhaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgggge straight at the enemy to pin them While I shoot them down with my archers
then I advance my infantry and kill some more
then I advance the archers and cavalry, the archers fling themselves onto the flanks of the enemy and the cavalry deal with the other cav.
If needed the archers and some infantry help to kill the opposing cavalry.
In the end it is just a big,fat, victory
But of course all down to the archers. (MOSTLY).

[TheDuck]

I think it wrong to classify wardogs as a fanatsy unit. There is no doubt that dogs were used in ancient warfare in fact its where we get the phrase 'Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of war'.

However, I think they were a very specialised unit nad certainly not a major feature of any battle. The historical articles I have read state that their most common usage was against cavalry where they were equipped with vertical blades strapped to their back and trained to run under and between the horses legs thus causing confusion and havoc amongst mounted formations.

The biggest problem however must have been enemy recognition and I suspect that once released wardogs ought to count as 'running amok' after their initial unit contact.

'Cry havoc, and let slip the dogs of War' - William Shakespeare (the play 'Julius Ceasar').

Many dog breeders on the internet claim that the Mastiff originated from Wardogs bred in Britian and Europe 2000 or more years ago. Can't find too many references in classical history, but that isn't that surprising, since ancient historians generally didn't focus on the mechanics of battle as muhc as the political/social repercussions of a battle. There are references in classical texts to manuals used by Roman Generals to help train the newer leaders in battlefield mechanics/tactics, but none survive to the modern day.. so much (although not all) of what we know today ends up being the result of educated guessing on our part.

And on the subject of the thread.. I like them myself.. as others have stated, good for a 'distraction' while your main force does its work (since the dogs are completely expendable and you can independently back off the handlers after the dogs are released).

Don't use them alone.. but use them to soak up casualties since they replenish in a turn.

[Sizzlorr]

true but if this is historicly sound then why did the greek plato say that and not a roman who had a wardog?

Did Plato say it before Shakespeare?

ANTONY

O, pardon me, thou bleeding piece of earth,
That I am meek and gentle with these butchers!
Thou art the ruins of the noblest man
That ever lived in the tide of times.
Woe to the hand that shed this costly blood!
Over thy wounds now do I prophesy,--
Which, like dumb mouths, do ope their ruby lips,
To beg the voice and utterance of my tongue--
A curse shall light upon the limbs of men;
Domestic fury and fierce civil strife
Shall cumber all the parts of Italy;
Blood and destruction shall be so in use
And dreadful objects so familiar
That mothers shall but smile when they behold
Their infants quarter'd with the hands of war;
All pity choked with custom of fell deeds:
And Caesar's spirit, ranging for revenge,
With Ate by his side come hot from hell,
Shall in these confines with a monarch's voice
Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war;
That this foul deed shall smell above the earth
With carrion men, groaning for burial.

Julius Ceasar, Act 3 scene 1 (http://www-tech.mit.edu/Shakespeare/...aesar.3.1.html)

EDIT: Oops, should have finished reading the thread before replying. Nice job, theDuck.

[The Stranger]

historically wardogs were used to disrupt enemy cavalry charges
i know it was used in the middle ages the put a torch on the dogs head to scare the horses these were no rottweillers but an other kind of dog mastitsu ar something maybe they copied it from the romans

[Emren]

I don't build wardogs, but I do occasionaly use the ones the Senate gives me as a gift.

One question: I have never fought a wardog-unit in the game (only in real life! ). What happens if you set archers to shoot at the wardogs? Do they target the handlers or the actual dogs?

[derF]

There are 2 things wrong about the Wardog unit:

Firstly, in real life, Wardogs would eventually lose interest if they become very tired in pursuit. Ive seen a band of Wardogs chase 3 chariots off the entire length of the field.

Secontly, also unrealistically, they are too disciplined. If you charge them into a line of troops, they will attack ONLY the unit you sent them against. In real life, they would break off and attack anything that moves!

[Epistolary Richard]

Edit: I'll try reading the entire thread next time

[drone]

Originally Posted by Emren

One question: I have never fought a wardog-unit in the game (only in real life! ). What happens if you set archers to shoot at the wardogs? Do they target the handlers or the actual dogs?

The archers only target the handlers. If you attemt to charge a wardog unit, your unit will charge towards the handlers as well. Once the dogs are released, they are pretty much ignored by the enemy (except in melee). The handlers are considered "the unit" which is why the dogs can continue past the red line when chasing routing units.

[WarDad]

Wardogs are a balanced Rock-Paper-Sissors unit.


Great against Chariots! (on easy level anyway)
Those doggies chase them down like slow cars and pull the riders right off.
Panic the chariot horses, and pursue them for the whole battle.
Really helped my outnumbered Bruti by taking out those flanking chariots.
Also help a city assult by taking scythed chariots off the streets.
Those armored scythed chariots are really nasty to densely packed troops!!!

Great against Spearman and Phalanxes.
Those doggies dodge the sprears, destroy formations, and cause routs.
I was outnumbered 2:1, and sent a wardog at the spearman in the center.
Bam, the line was broken the General (Captain, light calvary) just happen to trot in their path, and died. The other two wardog units were sent after the flanking chariots, and killed or kept them out of the battle.

Mixed against calvary.
They are Ok angainst light calvary, and can keep them off your butt, and pinned down for missle or melee attacks.
Heavy calvary will make dog meat out them. But heavies are trouble for everyone. Use the dogs to pin them down, and send support asap.

Mixed against infantry.
Heavies will make dog meat out of them.
Naked or Lightly armored infantry will have trouble

[Fwapper]

Way to dig up an old thread...

Anyway I rather like using dogs to just swamp the enemy and win with no losses. Not very realistic, but fun :D

[Severous]

On easy difficulty you get +4 combat adjustments. Dogs, with many attacks, are now relatively more powerful especially against low end troops.

I like using a war dog on very hard difficulty. Not for its destructuve effect but for its morale effect. With +7 combat adjustments in favour of the enemy the dogs are not as effective as portrayed above. Instead threy are released against a weakened unit at the height of battle. Hopefully with all the other effects going on its enough to break the enemy and start a rout.

[Shieldmaiden]

I use Warhounds for the Morale effect too, combined with Head Hurlers, Chariots, etc. Very effective.

[guineawolf]

i use wardogs becoz it's upkeep is low and easy to maintain when your supply is low(mostly i use them as start of Germania,very easy to take down a city even got full stack in it)

[woad&fangs]

I cant think of a barbarian unit that my wardogs havent massacred, heck ive sent them against generals and they still pull off the win. I assume they would suck against strongly armoured units like cataphracts and roman infantry but ive never tried. also i doubt they would do anything against elepehants. Anyway a strategy i like is to send them right in the middle of the enemies line, they will probably kill the unit i send them against and instead of chasing the survivors they will get stuck fighting the other infantry and missile troops.

[bedlam28]

I think that the 2 best uses for Wardogs is Siege, and to create morale issues in the enemy.

The good thing about sieges rather than open warfare is that if you send your dogs after a unit that routes in the fields and a part of that unit survives to run off the map, the dogs will disappear off the map too. Whereas a routing unit running to a city square is merely taking the dogs closer to the other units that are guarding the square. Result.

As for morale, your wardogs should sit just behind your Infantry. Whilst it has been noted that dogs aren't too good against Heavy Infantry, the way to resolve it is to wait until the enemy hit your lines, and then release the dogs.
Your enemy will be trying to stab your front line whilst rather annoyed Dobermanns are trying to nibble their important places.

A third but risky use is against the cowardly archers that are slowly whittling down your lines, but that can be dodgy as your handlers sometimes get too close to the enemy lines before releasing and whilst dogs are respawned after a battle, your handlers aren't !!!

good hunting.

[Corky_123]

I once came up against a whole Brutii AI army of wardogs!?! About six units of them rampaged through my principe (spelling?) line and almost won the battle.

[RickFGS]

I find Wardogs usefull against enemy light (without armor) archers, they cause confusion and all the archers set to skirmish will run, die and just get out of the fight scene which is the best afterall, beacause if they are running they arent firing.

In overall i like Wardogs on the enemy side, because my troops like the damm poodles with a little potato and salad on the side...its usally a pretty soft and tasty meal....

[Veho Nex]

Ive had problems with dogs attacking my own units any one else?

[pockettank]

well personly i think there weak i had about 1400 men as julii and the gauls had about 1700 about 200 of them being dogs and i had 4 units of town watch 6 units of barbarian mercenarys, 1 general, 1 unit of velites, 3 barbarian cavalry and 1 equites, and 4 hastati.. i layed my men out in the woods and moved my general up to get the enemy to come out of hiding the pincered my men in killing off 99% of that assault losing about 49% then the 200 dogs come up, routed my remaining town watch, then my cavalry chased them down with no loses to them.. lost another 3% due to town watch.. pretty pethetic if u ask me

[Shieldmaiden]

pockettank, Wardogs aren't effective used on their own - the AI is clueless, a player isn't.

[pockettank]

pockettank, Wardogs aren't effective used on their own - the AI is clueless, a player isn't.

hehe well ive never been able to use them either so i guess the AI and me are equal with wardogs lmao oh well i dont use them so im happy

[killer123456789]

i still haven't trained wardogs the whole time I have been playing because I thought that they would really stink at fighting but from what i've been hearing I'm going to train 10 units