"Spear" attribute

[Woreczko]

Hello

I would like to ask a simple question, what exactly gives "spear" attribute? All phalanx units have this entry, but without it phalanxes still seem to work. I have an impression, that it prevents a soldier from using his spear/pike at close quarters, but I`m not sure.

Thanks in advance

[Simetrical]

The spear attribute is supposed to increase effectiveness against cavalry and decrease it against cavalry, at least according to the file.

-Simetrical

[The_678]

increase effectiveness against cavalry and decrease it against cavalry

????????

[Woreczko]

The spear attribute is supposed to increase effectiveness against cavalry and decrease it against cavalry, at least according to the file.

-Simetrical

It`s decrease against infantry :) Anyway you are correct, but I would bet, that it`s responsible for something else, otherwise why didn`t CA use mount modifiers?

[AmbrosiusAurelianus]

CA did use mount modifiers as well. There was a huge discussion on this over at twcenter.net so if you are curious you might try to dig up the thread. If I remember correctly the consensus was that the weakness against infantry that was part of the "Spear" bonus meant that the phalanx units were unrealistically ineffective against other infantry units, so they got the mount effect bonus instead. Some dedicated spear units (ie non-phalanx) just got the "Spear" bonus, although the application of each seemed to be a little random.
A lot people thought that this element of the game was somewhat rushed/sloppy as I recall. I only use the mount effect bonus, which I find increases the effectiveness against cavalry exceedingly well. It also has the advantage that you can vary how much of a boost to give such units, rather simply relying on the fixed spear bonus, which is either on or off. The choice is yours, however.

Regards,
AA

[Frans Ubberdork]

I went thru one day and added the spear attribute to all the units that carried spears.....Later in a campaign battle for an important city I charged some heavy cav. into the REAR of an eastern hillman spear unit..totally wiped out my cav...it was like instant destruction. This was a dead center rear charge, the infantry should have been crushed.
I went back tru removed the spear attribute and changed it to the bonus against mounts instead which works much better IMO.
I think spear units should get a bonus versus cav. but not that kind of bonus when hit from rear.

[MAsta_KFC]

Yes, I recall that thread at twcenter.

Basically, the 'spear' attribute gives that certain weapon something akin to 'the touch of death' for cavalry and at the same time makes them horrible against infantry. Which is why if you notice carefully, almost any hit on a phalanxed unit still carrying the spear/pike will almost always result in a kill.

The mount bonus is usually better, however, the drawback is that it applies to BOTH weapons, which means units with primary and secondary (usually the sword) gets a bonus for both, making it unrealistic. It's quite useful for dedicated spearman though.

After some tweaking, I've felt that the mount bonuses for vanilla spearman are far too underpowered, especially if swordsman fare better. Take for example, Triarii compare to Principes.

Principes sword has the following values:
stat_sec 7, 2, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, piercing, sword, 25 ,1

Ie its attack value is 7 x (Rate of attack)1 = 7

Compared to Triarii:
mount_effect horse +4, chariot +4, camel +4
stat_pri 7, 7, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, piercing, spear, 25 ,0.73

So against cavalry its total attack is (7+4) x 0.73 = 8.03

Whoa, thats ONE whole point of bonus compared to a normal swordsman! *sarcasm*. Fat lot of difference that'll make in a fight.

So therefore if one wants to make spearman truly effective, you might have to change the bonuses manually to suit your taste.

Cheers!