question about germanic states

[Sjakihata]

Hi,

In the time span of MTW, Germany is listed as a faction. But it is to my beliefs that the germanic states/factions were MANY factions indeed.
However I also do think that the many states of german, had several alliances military but also economic. Especially the economic alliances they had, were very profitable, and the small faction became very rich.

Some of the more major states:
- Mecklenburg
- Hamburg/Bremen
- Oldenburg
- Pommern (Vor und hinter)
- these are just the few I can recall.

Ther was also many minor factions, and some were almost at war. Therefore I think it was "a bad move", to make a unified faction called Germany. I would have prefered, to conquer smaller german factions. Furthermore in the early era, there was uncertain borders between "Germnay" and "Denmark". So that "Denmark", actually posses Jylland (the mainland of Denmark), is very historical unaccurate.

And yes, I do know that many other factions were not fully united too. I just think this is the most provable example.

I would wish they would consider historical accuracy better next time.

That all.. Thanks for reading me beeing grumpy

And if I am enteirly wrong, with my statements, please enlighten me !

[AvramL]

The HRE started the medieval era as a united political state under leaders such as Friedrich Barbarossa. However, by the end of the 13th century the empire began to fall apart. Internal squabbles, dynastic change and the growing independance of vassal lords all contributed into making the HRE an empire in name only. There were ofcourse brief periods of unity, but by and large the empire ceased to function as a unified body. The religious turmoil during the 16th and 17th centuries spelt the effective end of the HRE with several families (Habsburgs, Hohenzollerns and Guelphs) taking control of many provinces while the rest became independant. Despite this, the title of HR emporer remained with the Habsburgs until Napoleon stripped it away from them. though up until that point, it was more of an institution for religious unity of southern Germany than some sort of real political/military alliance.

[AvramL]

I suppose this can be simulated in the game by having many independant, disloyal commanders/governors making your kingdom more of a hodgepodge of loosely allied states.

[AvramL]

Oh I remember now, an economic union you might be thinking of was the Hanseatic league of German ports.

[Sjakihata]

Ok.. thanks for the input

What does HRE stands for?

[the Count of Flanders]

Holy Roman empire, some illusian the frankish rulers had about re-instating the classical roman empire in its full greatness (this would be the second reich under charlemagne). Still after the split of Charlemagne's empire the eastern part of the empire retained the name HRE. (the west was named "empire of the Franks"-> Frank-reich->France) This HRE was bigger than current germany: it included current austria, Czechia, slovakia, parts of poland, parts of Belgium, holland and germany of course.

[This message has been edited by the Count of Flanders (edited 08-15-2002).]

[AvramL]

I thought that the HRE was created after Otto 1 defeated the magyars at Lechfeld(?) in the 10th century, the Pope was overjoyed and gave the new kingdom his blessing (or something) and thus was called the HRE after the city that was the seat of the pope's power. I think originally the Pope was supposed to have some real influence in the empire, but that quickly faded. That was the 1st Reich (2nd was created in 1871, 3rd when Hitler came to power in 1933).

[the Count of Flanders]

hmm yes
I was under the illusion:
1st reich: Roman empire
2nd reich: Charlemagne's empire
3rd reich: well you know
but that's probably bollocks then
I do know (with great certainty) the Carolingians strived to re-create the classic roman empire. I think Otto was the first emperor to be crowned by the pope and maybe it officially got the prefix holy then? I'm starting to doubt here, I'll look it up.
ok looked it up: yes Otto was the first emperor and the first mentions of the name on official documents begin to appear some 50 yrs later. Origin of the name is unclear: both the Carolingian as the more obvious Roman/pope explanation are there.
Should really brush up my history on that part methinks.

[This message has been edited by the Count of Flanders (edited 08-16-2002).]

[Frantz]

BTW the battles between the leagues ( leagues of cities or knights ones ) were very small battles ( few dozen of deads ) and we have to say that almost the HRE saved germany from the same destiny of Italy , and bring togheter the same language ( later ) and identity for the future .
some rules like the need to wait 48 months to cross alps or going in other countries dont allowed germany to expand much more .
Would have been very interesting to see how FEdrick II would have matched the mongol invasion .

[AvramL]

Wasn't he in Italy at the time bringing the pope to heel?

[AvramL]

Germany was never conquered by Rome, and because they saw Charlemange(Karl the great) as an usurping Frank, their numbering of empires started with the HRE. BTW has anyone read the very interesting story of Goetz von Berlichingen the famous 16th century German knight? It gives a good portrait of the HRE in this period. Oh and how does one summon an Umlaut(sp?) when typing.

[This message has been edited by AvramL (edited 08-19-2002).]

[Frantz]

well was the pope along with italian cities that brought Federick II to heel at the end , unfortunatly for ITaly cos the pope always aimed to disgregate italy

[Lurkster]

AvramL -

I don't know if you are still looking for the umlaut info, but you would have to use the Character Map for that (assuming Windows use). Go to the character map (in system tools) and go to one of the font symbol sets. Each letter/accent combination has its own keystroke combo (eg. Times New Roman "ü" is Alt+0252.....
HTH

[AvramL]

Ü, ahh there we go, what a pain though, I think I'll stick to using an e instead. Thanks for the info

[Lurkster]

hehehehe -- yeah, I guess an e is easier...no prob for the info