Bankruptcy

[claymore]

I have depleted my 200K + war chest in an endgame slugging match with the other remaining opponent left in the game (the Spanish).

I am currently 25K "overdrawn" with no hope of increasing my income due to the war, what does the future hold? I'm beginning to see more and more victories against the Spanish and reckon I can beat them in about 15 years - if I had the cash. Plundering captured provinces is not making up the shortfall and I am running an overall loss of about 8-10 k a year. The Spanish have had a number of rebellions but I can't trade with these nations as despite my naval supremacy it seems one Spanish caravel can disrupt trade despite my 8 cog fleet in the same sea!

How much money can you owe and what are the consequences of being increasingly in debt other than not being able to build / train. i.e rebellions civil wars etc? I presume the Spanish are suffering the same so I'm hoping it will affect them before me as they are a larger empire with more outgoings.

On other related point before the attack on my kingdom which forced this death match. I noticed my coffers decreasing even though my finance sheet told me I was generating an overall profit each year. Any medieval accountants out there?

If sue for peace to give me a respite but the Spanish refuse every time, any ideas on that one?

[Hold Steady]

I have depleted my 200K + war chest in an endgame slugging match with the other remaining opponent left in the game (the Spanish).

I am currently 25K "overdrawn" with no hope of increasing my income due to the war, what does the future hold? I'm beginning to see more and more victories against the Spanish and reckon I can beat them in about 15 years - if I had the cash. Plundering captured provinces is not making up the shortfall and I am running an overall loss of about 8-10 k a year. The Spanish have had a number of rebellions but I can't trade with these nations as despite my naval supremacy it seems one Spanish caravel can disrupt trade despite my 8 cog fleet in the same sea!

How much money can you owe and what are the consequences of being increasingly in debt other than not being able to build / train. i.e rebellions civil wars etc? I presume the Spanish are suffering the same so I'm hoping it will affect them before me as they are a larger empire with more outgoings.

On other related point before the attack on my kingdom which forced this death match. I noticed my coffers decreasing even though my finance sheet told me I was generating an overall profit each year. Any medieval accountants out there?

If sue for peace to give me a respite but the Spanish refuse every time, any ideas on that one?

Woops, dire straits.. Well, there are no consequences IIRC, other then unable to build/train. There are no bigger (loan)sharks than yourself in this game, so nobody is gonna break your legs or pop a kneecap or something. As far as I know, there are no happiness or loyalty penalties (there should be if the game was very realistic, on account of payment to your troops, but there aren't).

Can you disband useless troops, sell of buildings and with the cash build agricultural improvements and mines? Also, if you need to garrison some provinces that are not profitable, give 'em to the rebels.. If you have naval superiority, try to destroy all his fleets. try to find trading partners outside his reach. And try to assign high acumen governors to the most profitable provinces. What is the area you posses? Which provinces? How many troops do you keep up?

[bretwalda]

Kill the Spanish. Burn n' loot. This way they get beaten and you lose troops for which you don't have to pay maintenance. Trash you mercenary troops on the enemy, especially. This time the more men they lose the better... Do this to your ships as well, it is a very good time to kill enemy ships as long as you keep you line of shipping open (I mean at least 1-2 ship in each sea area) If you lose 4 out of your 8 ship fleet is no problem - less maintenance you have to pay. Keep you own infrastructure intact but sell all building is the provinces you don't want to keep (for now). Let those border provinces rebel. Shorten your borders. Defend them the at the fewest possible provinces. This way you will consolidate your empire and deal a great blow to the enemy.

[claymore]

Can you disband useless troops, sell of buildings and with the cash build agricultural improvements and mines? Also, if you need to garrison some provinces that are not profitable, give 'em to the rebels.. If you have naval superiority, try to destroy all his fleets. try to find trading partners outside his reach. And try to assign high acumen governors to the most profitable provinces. What is the area you posses? Which provinces? How many troops do you keep up?[/QUOTE]

I cleared the build list - still a few Fotressess under construction but these are already paid for. I have not been producing an new units for a few years now How do I sell buildings - is this the same as destroying them? I have almost complete dominance of the sea and want to keep it that way - I need to build ships to maintain this. I destroy his fleets and they reappear again - so I know he is still building. The odd defeat is picking away at my fleets slowly but surely.

Most of the rebel provinces are in the not so profitable North African coast - he has held Tripoli etc from the rebels. The Spanish control the southern half of the map - 1/2 France, Spain, Italy, All the former Byzantine and Egyptian lands bar Corsica and Sardinia still held by the Italians.

I control everything East of England as far as Kahazar and as south as Swabia/Poland and 1/2 France- I think he has Hungary - so he's definitely bigger than me, I will try giving up some of the Russian provinces to rebels and see if that helps. I was hoping to launch attacks through Khazar into the mid east to deprive him of that area - trouble is I'm also retaking France province by Province and have a raiding party in Spain trying to cause trouble - don't know if this will make a lot of difference. I honestly don't know how many stacks I have, probably around 10-12 good stacks of about 1000-1500 men. I keep very few good garrison troops some regions don't even have a garrison as they are over 200% loyalty. I don't think my luck is going to hold much longer. Have to try playing the Spanish next time!

[Ludens]

Destroy buildings, filter your construction queue's (you'll get your money back if you stop building the fortresses) and disband mercenaries and expensive, unnecessary garrison troops. I assume you can't trade anymore, so there is no objection to focussing all your ships (except for a single one in each sea) on the enemy. I advice going straight for his heartlands: this will cripple his production and the countries of Spain are very rich even without trade. Also: do you regularly check your provincial governors for vices? I scan my units about every decade to see if someone more skilled has appeared that can take over the governing of my provinces. Four acumen governor can really increase your cash flow in wealthy provinces.

It is too easy to become reliant on trade income to supply your armies. Once the end game starts trade income will dry up leaving you without the cash you used to pay your armies with. Try no to become to dependant on it. Keep your armies small but well equipped and don't be afraid to disband units that are obsolete or unneeded. Keep small and cheap garrisons and place a spy in every province to keep loyalty up. Take special care with mercenaries: only use them when you have no alternative unit. Mercenaries are very expensive.

[mfberg]

Encourage rebellions and capture the rebels.

Kill any ship you see, find out which province they are building ships in and crush it.

Use your mercenaries as front line troops, and disband any that remain alive. Mercenary cavalry are money-pits.

mfberg

[claymore]

Thanks for the advice - I don't really do Mercenary troops unless I really need to - I don't have any currently but if there are no consequences to going furhter into the red I might hire some to weaken the stronger spanish stacks before sending in my own troops.

I will try getting rid of some buildings to see if that helps - my agriculture and mines are to the max at the moment so there won't be any joy there. I have been fairly careful about not building too many unecessary buildings though so I don't know how much I can raise through that. I think the raiding party in Spain is going to have to ramp things up with a bit of scorched earth - hopefully that will stop the ships appearing and also lead to rebellions - esp Portugal which seems to rebel every third year. I will give up some of the Russian provinces as these are stretching me thin at present.

I'll try the spy tip too - I've only really sent them to foreign provinces before now.

I've got a general who's an outlaw - I stripped him of titles and command moved his unit out of the stack and tried to assassinate him but he'd he's quite difficult to get rid of - I feel a suicide mission coming on - shame to lose the good troops he commands though - but maybe the spy would work on him - currently don't have any spies as they have all gone by the wayside but may have problems training any more.

Still if people aren't bored to death of my antics then I'll see if any of these things work tonight and let you know how I get on.


Cheers all

[OlafTheBrave]

I have seen over 200,000 in the red before so don't sweat that. Instead of taking and holding enemy lands grab up 4 or 5 really good stacks and just go from provence to provence on a rampage. You will get some funds for pillage and if he abonds any provences distroy all buildings except the castle. Also note when his ships appear and in what seas. Rember it takes three years to build a ship so you know when to check back to blast them out of the watter.

[_Aetius_]

I was in over 100,000 in debt with the byzantines when i held about 90% of the map i just gave up trying to recover the economy and just crushed my enemies, forget your economy cancel those damn fortresses lol and push against the enemy if you do enough damage the spanish will wish they dof agreed for peace lol.

Just push against them and your conquests will provide money to rebuild your economy but the only way forward is to attack.

[Hold Steady]

If I read your reply correctly, you only posses the north and eastern part of Europe (only?). This means if you want to trade in the med, the Spanish can cut your trade line easily indeed. But what about England? What nation are you? can you trade with England or is it Spanish too? Since you hold Kazar, is it possible to build a port and trade post there? and shuttle your ships to the eastern Med and black sea? perhaps you can set up a little trade there or are the Italians also unfriendly? whatever you do, don't become depended on them. Develop provinces like Flanders and Sweden. They can get very profitable. Or the northern Italian provinces, if u have them.

[Ludens]

I've got a general who's an outlaw - I stripped him of titles and command moved his unit out of the stack and tried to assassinate him but he'd he's quite difficult to get rid of - I feel a suicide mission coming on - shame to lose the good troops he commands though - but maybe the spy would work on him - currently don't have any spies as they have all gone by the wayside but may have problems training any more.

Outlaw is only a problem if he is a governor. Just strip any provincial titles of him (or give him a province which isn't worth much) and the problem is solved.

If you still want to remove him (because he has low loyalty), an inquisitor might work. Succesful treason trials are supposed to increase the loyalty of other generals, but the chances of succes can be rather low and if it goes wrong the problem will get worse. Personally, I use spies for internal security and bishops/alims/priests for espionage. Religious agents (with the exception of inquisitors) don't get caught by border forts, they seldom get assassinated and they placate the local population. Off course, spies do have the advantage that they are better at causing revolts and they can warn you off attacks.

[claymore]

Thanks for the continued advice. I owned the northen half of the map from East to West - British Isles to Khazar. Including Scandinavia, Denmark, most of the German states down to Swabia and Bohemiaand allso Poland and Volnyha (sic?).

I have now reconquered all of France my raiding party in Spain has raized three provinces and is heading to Granada to demolish buildings there, as straits of Gibraltar are still a choke point for trade as this is where the majority of the ships appear.

The Spanish have suffered a swath of rebellions all over the middle east and north africa and right on the cue the Pope re established himself and excommunicated the Spanish king, and retook the southern half of Italy.

I think I've got him on the ropes. I haven't been able to get back in to the black to produce more troops to replace losses so have let some of the Russian provinces rebel. The golden Horde have made a reappearnace as well so I lost Khazar but the Spanish lost tthe one south Armenia?

Thanks for the advice re the outlaw general. It was the first time I've had that vice for a general - unfortunately it didn't come in time to save him!

[Marquis de Said]

This might be a long shot, but if you could capture the Spanish king in battle and ransom him, you should get about 10-15 k in cash. That would help your economy. If you know where he is, and he happens to be in an almost isolated province attack him and the provinces around him with all the troops you can throw at him. He will have nowhere to retreat and (hopefully) you should capture him. Since he is building ships, he should have cash for ransom.

Re: the Russian provinces. I would not have given them up as that way you lose as much income as you save in troop expenses, or even more (e.g. income 200 vs. upkeep 50 or 37). The steppes tend to become loyal to you after a while, so one unit of spearmen/peasants should suffice for garrison duty. Send bishops/spies to increase loyalty. Moreover, the steppes are easy to defend with armies in Khazar, Kiev and Lithuania. And if rebellions occur, crush them and take the ransom for captured rebels.

But of course it is easy to give advice like this, since I'm not playing the game.

[Hold Steady]

The steppes tend to become loyal to you after a while, so one unit of spearmen/peasants should suffice for garrison duty.

Not when it's Horde time baby..

[claymore]

Well since my last post -the Spanish Empire collapsed when I killed two successive Kings on the trot - I was busy defeating as many of the weak rebellion stacks that succeeded the Spanish as possible I now own most of Spain, France, North Africa and the "Holy Land" and the previous regions mentioned. The Spanish reappeared after several years but they are now in no position to challenge. Unfortunatley I couldn't hold a lot of the Russian states against the horde which gives me a new challenge - but through a massive cull of surplus to requirements buildings I am now runnning a profit of about 8k per year and my coffers are at about 60k - a lot healthier than before. So I can now train the troops I need to beat the horde and then finish off the Spanish and the Pope- only problem as I see it is that I only have about thirty years left which leaves quite a lot to do in not much time!

Thanks for the advice as it has certainly helped.

P.s - Feudal and Chivalric knights seem to be excellent troops to take on the Horde with - expensive but really good to have a three or four of these units in your army to take on the mongol Heavy Cavalry guys.

[kiwitt]

Sounds like you had a really good game.

I remember that about the Knights versus the horde. A tactic I use is Archers, behind a double or triple wall of spearmen-type troops. As the arrows get expended I just replace the archers with new archers from the reserves. The Horde 'hates' the volleys of arrows.

[Hold Steady]

Sounds like you had a really good game.

I remember that about the Knights versus the horde. A tactic I use is Archers, behind a double or triple wall of spearmen-type troops. As the arrows get expended I just replace the archers with new archers from the reserves. The Horde 'hates' the volleys of arrows.

If you poll, there's not much lovers of these arrow volley's to be found, on the recieving end then. Indeed, these cavalry is very good on the Horde MHC, but expensive. A cheaper, though more time-consuming way (only in the battles, because of better availability it might be a better choice if you have only 30 years) to finish them is using simple spearmen and halbadiers, along with some assorted cav (light for the HA, medium and heavy for hammering the MHC on the anvil of your spears). The way to do this is to bulldoze the Horde off the map. Keeping your spear/halberd line intact is crucial, and keep your medium/heavy cav ready for the flanking. This is a time consuming task if the Horde is especially slippery (many HA) and it might be necessary to feint attacks to draw them into the open or to divide your units. But is is much cheaper!