Assassins way too powerful?

**Emren** · 01-03-2005, 11:28

I think it's too easy to upgrade assassins... Just let them at a rebel captain or even enemy captains... after just a few successful missions these guys are just too good. I have three 7+ assassins, and they are almost taking out the entire Gaul family line singlehandedly. It's at the point where I'm thinking about not using them (just like wardogs...).

Anyone agree? Has this been discussed before? (I've searched, but the "search function is not exactly stellar)...

**Akka** · 01-03-2005, 12:38

Assassins are good, but I don't think they're TOO powerful. It's still extremely hard to take out the faction leader/heir, and considering the humongous size of families compared to MTW, and the possibility to have huge numbers of children, it requires a LOT more assassinations to hurt a country.

Diplomats and bribing, on the other hand...

**Dutch_guy** · 01-03-2005, 22:51

they are'nt that overpowered, they guy's that matter faction leaders and heirs
are still very hard to kill ( about a 1 to 10 % chance ).
but captains are to easy with a 7 + assasin ,just as other family members

**drone** · 01-03-2005, 23:24

It's always nice to have a few well-trained assassins around. Set a newbie assassin on a rebel stack (preferably in your neighbor's province, to avoid devastation), and kill the captain. Lather, rinse, repeat.

I usually don't go after faction family members. You can have fun with assassins by annoying your neighbors with sabotage. But they are also great at clearing out the hordes of diplomats wandering your territories. After you lose a city or army to a bribing diplomat, it's cathartic to cut a path through the old geezers hanging around.

**KyodaiSteeleye** · 01-04-2005, 00:02

well, considering i've not actually ever had any of my faction leaders/captains/diplomats assasinated by other factions, my response would be - if you think your assassins are overpowered, don't exploit the weaknesses in the engine to make them overpowered - just 'cause a loop hole is there, doesn't mean you have to take it!

**drone** · 01-04-2005, 00:22

Posted by KyodaiSteeleye

well, considering i've not actually ever had any of my faction leaders/captains/diplomats assasinated by other factions, my response would be - if you think your assassins are overpowered, don't exploit the weaknesses in the engine to make them overpowered - just 'cause a loop hole is there, doesn't mean you have to take it!

Exactly why I don't go for faction members. Sabotage and diplomat/spy hunting are fun enough, and don't take too much away from the game. Now, if we ever get multiplayer campaign, I'm sure this discussion will be one of many...

**Emren** · 01-04-2005, 10:43

Not true with regards to the chance to kill faction leader. When I killed off the Gaul faction leader, there was a 63% chance to kill him. Mind you, this was with my 8 skill assassin. He might have had some negative traits to lower his security, though, I am not sure.

And like I said, I'm considering not using these guys too much. It's just a shame that it's such an obvious exploit. It's not that I think that it's too easy for them to kill diplomats, captains and what not. It's just too easy to get them to level up. So IMHO, the chance to level up should be relative to the value of the target. So killing a rebel captain should give maybe a 10% chance to level up, killing a faction captain (not family member) could be maybe 15%, killing a diplomat maybe a 25% chance, a family member 50%, a faction heir 75% and the faction leader 100%. Could also be bonuses to level-up for senate members.

It's always nice to have a few well-trained assassins around. Set a newbie assassin on a rebel stack (preferably in your neighbor's province, to avoid devastation), and kill the captain. Lather, rinse, repeat.

This is the problem, and where the exploit is. There's a perpetual target for the assassin, which doesn't even move on the campaign map, and the chance to level up are too great.

**Attalus** · 01-04-2005, 12:33

Originally Posted by Emren

I think it's too easy to upgrade assassins... Just let them at a rebel captain or even enemy captains... after just a few successful missions these guys are just too good. I have three 7+ assassins, and they are almost taking out the entire Gaul family line singlehandedly. It's at the point where I'm thinking about not using them (just like wardogs...).

Anyone agree? Has this been discussed before? (I've searched, but the "search function is not exactly stellar)...

Are you kidding? All my assassins are retarded. They take my gold, and can't seem to whack anybody...

I mean, c'mon...they've got this huuuge frikken club...budda bing, budda boom, forget about it...

By the time I get to ice any bastid my goomba's are like, frikkin 80 years old or something...an' the only person got off'ed is the knuckleheaded retard!!

I MISS my geishas....

DO YOU HEAR ME CREATIVE ASSEMBLY!?!

Bring back my geishas...sniff...

bastids

-Attalus-
Fool me once...shame on you
Fool me twice...prepare to die

**Attalus** · 01-04-2005, 12:44

Hey...I'm not sure if this is off topic..it IS about assassins though..

How cool would it be if you could HIRE assassins from other factions to do your dirty work? (with your diplomat...like mercenaries)

I don't know...like if you hired say, a Thracian assassin to knock off a Roman Senate Family member...and you were the Julii..

If the assassin got busted...well, doom on Thrace!

If a spy was present...the assassin gets tortured and, depending on the disparity of skills between spy and assassin, BINGO you got busted behind the whole thing...

OR if you wanted to kill an Egyptian...use an Eygptian!! I mean, they know the place..and who'd ever suspect him?

Why stop there?
If your target had a gourmand style vice...hire a macedonian poison specialist!

If your target has extra security..send in a Judean Suicide squad...

It would give your diplomat something positive to do...instead of being told to go and fornicate with a pineapple for offering to 'gift' map information...

ROMA INVICTA...

-Attalus-
Fool me once...shame on you
Fool me twice...prepare to die

**KyodaiSteeleye** · 01-04-2005, 19:24

Attalus - yes, that would be quite kewl.

**drone** · 01-04-2005, 20:53

I've never been the target of an assassin in R:TW (that I know about, maybe I'm missing something), does anyone know what notification you get when you a) lose someone to an assassin or b) have an failed attempt on one of your characters? Does it show who was responsible? Some games (MoO, BotF) would frame another faction for the hit/sabotage, some even allowed you to choose who to frame. Good way to drive a wedge in between a couple of allies. Delightfully evil

**Obex** · 01-04-2005, 22:02

Ive had my agents assassinated (at least), and no, there is no warning announcement or signal. i think that its kind of cool. i remember thinking, "where did my assassin go...", then sending in a spy to check it out, only to find the enemy spy and assassin double team. my spy soon followed.

i think that assassins are balanced pretty well, so long as you dont quick load for a failed attempt. it does take a while to train up a good assassin, only to have them die from old age at 34.