Spartan Hoplites; phalanx?

[Kraxis]

Ok, we have to set up the definitions.

There are two versions of the phalanx. The old hoplite phalanx and the newer Macedonian phalanx. The only thing they have in common is the name and their relative unflexibility. And neither was invented by the Thebans, they still used the old hoplite phalanx when they faced off with Phillip and later with Alexander. The inventors have been said to be Pheidon of Argos (hoplite phalanx) and Iphicrates and/or Phillip of Macedon (Macedonain Phalanx).

The hoplite phalanx was a defensive construction where each man got protection from his buddies to the right and left. Especially to the right as his own shield was centered on his left elbow, making a bit of his right side open to attack, but at the same time the shield would also stretch out to the left and protect the next guy's right side. The weapons carried was the spear and sword. The spear was 'short' about 2.5 meters and carried overhand (some, it seems, did carry it underhand).
The Macedonain phalanx is the most like the one we see in the game, but it was based on an offensive outline where the men were protected by pikepoints rather than by shields. This demanded longer spears (pikes) and smaller shields strapped to the forearm. The pike was wielded twohanded and low.

The reason the hoplites use a onehanded underhand grip is because CA came to the conclusion that the overhand style was problematic (if you watch TC Adrianople you will see the Auxiliaries use the overhand style), the same is true for the twohanded grip of the Macedonian phalanx.

But to answer the original question. Yes the Spartans adopted the Macedonian phalanx, but much later than most others. It was around 220 BC.

[Meneldil]

I'm pretty sure (like 90%) that the macedonian phalanx formation was first used by the Thebans (maybe by the Sacred Band, I'm not quite sure about that).
My sources are, amongst others, "The Ancient Greeks" (Osprey), "The Lion of Macedon" (fantasy book, but with correct historical background), and "Alexandre et la Macédoine".

Anyway, the game's way to depict both Phalanx and Hoplites is kinda screwed up, so you'd better not make your mind with it.

[kendonosensei]

Meneldil is right. Don't get your knickers in a twist about this. The whole game is built around artistic licence and convenience.

Though it would have been interesting to see the Spartans as a non-phalanx, elite infantry unit, I like them the way they are. Well, I like them with the "Decisive Battles" mod. No more nightmares of Obi-Wan Kenobis fighting off Roman legions!

[Watchman]

Assuming the Thebans had known of the "Macedonian" phalanx before the Macedonians, they sure seem to have gotten turned into mincemeat when they faced it on the battlefield... not that the rest of the Greek hoplites did much better.

That'd be a slightly weird developement is all I'm saying. Far as I know phalanx vs. phalanx fights mostly resembled the "push of pikes" the European pikemen engaged in over a millenia later. Phalanx vs. hoplite fights likely turned into the sort of frightening slaughter you got whenever about anything got in the front of a phalanx...

And by what I've read the "hoplite" phalanx (I prefer to call it "hoplite shieldwall" for the sake of clarity) probably originated in Mesopotamia, assuming some wall reliefs mean what they seem to show.

[Byzantine Prince]

Phillip got the Macedonian phallanx when he was a prisoner in Thebae. I don't think the Thebans had their pikes THAT long, I think that was Phillip's engenuity.

[Uesugi Kenshin]

I seem to remember a slight scoop out of the shield that seemed to allow the pike to move through, do I remember this or is the mind playing tricks again?
I think I remember this from Decisive Battles, Marathon and Thermopylae, when they show the actors in full gear to give a more detailed view of the soldiers and armament..... Seems like it would help make the pike easier to use.

[Red Harvest]

If the Thebans didn't have their pikes "that long" then was it really a Macedonian style phalanx? The Theban specialty was a very deep phalanx. The Macedonian phalanx was not so deep, the two are not the same. So I question whether or not Menledil's sources are saying what he is interpeting them to say, or if they *are* saying that what is their basis? You have Iphicrates, Epaminondas, and Philip all involved in some fundamental changes all within a few decades. Iphicrates adopted longer spears ~3-3.6 m, smaller shields, and lighter gear to create a light hoplite with greater reach and mobility (some time after 390 BC.) Leuctra was in 371 BC, Philip came to power only 12 years later, but his phalanx differed in spear/pike length. The original hoplite spear length was about 1.5 - 2.5 m. The sarissa was defininitely a two handed weapon ~6-7 m long. So did the Thebans use a full sarissa, or Iphicrates' intermediate spear length? (And was Iphicrates' spear used two handed?) Did the Thebans use a two handed weapon? I don't think there are any definitive sources to say so. Claiming that Macedon took the idea from Thebes is mere supposition unless there are some contemporary descriptions of Thebes using the sarissa before Macedon.