Spartan Hoplites; phalanx?

[Watchman]

Hoplite battles were actually kind of boring. You had two groups lined up slowly advancing towards each other, constantly stopping to redress the lines, and quite often at least parts of the lines would flee before the enemy even got into close combat. The Spartans could often chase off an army by their fierce reputation and professional maneuvering alone.

When the hoplites finally got around to charging, there'd be vast clouds of dust, a huge crash when the lines met, and usually one side broke and ran after rather brief hand-to-hand combat. Serious "fight to the death" situations only happened rarely, usually when a wing of an army got isolated by the rest of the troops routing and was surrounded.

Remember, these were quite literally "sunday soldiers".

The Macedonian phalangites, incidentally, had small shields hung from their necks to offer a measure of protection; they needed both hands to handle the sarissa (the RTW pikemen waving theirs around one-handed, with a big mighty shield strapped to the other arm, look somewhat amusing).

[Kraxis]

The Macedonian phalangites, incidentally, had small shields hung from their necks to offer a measure of protection; they needed both hands to handle the sarissa (the RTW pikemen waving theirs around one-handed, with a big mighty shield strapped to the other arm, look somewhat amusing).

Now don't get it too deep in here.
Indeed the phalangites had the shield strapped around the neck and shoulder (like a shoulderbag would be), but it was also strapped to the left forearm, the arm gripping the pike furthest forward. That means that the shield was somewhat maneauverable, most certainly in melee. But it also helped in a more physical way, it helped the phalangite keep the pike up by sending the weight up to his neck and shoulder. That way he could fight a much longer time and with better control.
The way you said it, it sounded like the shield just dangled down from the neck like a loose bellybag.

[Watchman]

Now don't get it too deep in here.
Indeed the phalangites had the shield strapped around the neck and shoulder (like a shoulderbag would be), but it was also strapped to the left forearm, the arm gripping the pike furthest forward. That means that the shield was somewhat maneauverable, most certainly in melee. But it also helped in a more physical way, it helped the phalangite keep the pike up by sending the weight up to his neck and shoulder. That way he could fight a much longer time and with better control.
The way you said it, it sounded like the shield just dangled down from the neck like a loose bellybag.

*shrug* the description I read on the subject certainly made it sound like it. Be that as it may, the shield was there and provided and extra layer of wood for any incoming things to go through, which is of course the main thing.

Uh... Meneldil ? By what you describe, it sounds a whole lot like the Thebans would've had an advantage in a "push of pikes" with the Macedonians - longer pikes, and more spare ranks. Yet all the (few) descriptions of Philip's career I've come across suggest the Macedonians chewed the Thebans up without particularly more trouble than they had against other Greeks...

Mind you, I'm perfectly willing to believe the Macedonians picked up the phalanx from somewhere and refined it; that's how many a succesful conqueror has gotten that special edge they needed to get started. I'm also half convinced the Macedonians picked the idea of heavy shock cavalry from the nearby steppe peoples, though the proto-feudal system they developed for raising the Companions was probably an original idea.