Rock/Paper/Scissors vs Stone/Javelin/Arrow

[Spino]

The reason why Bull Warriors and Scutarii have such high pilum attack ratings is because they are Spain's only decent infantry and that faction needs all the help it can get. Futhermore Bull Warriors are considered an elite unit, thus the justification for making their pilum attack on par with the Marian reform legionaries. Rather odd though that CA created 'Spanish Mercenaries' which are essentially downgraded Scutarii with lower melee, less armor and a lower pilum missile rating. Clearly CA did not want Carthage or any other faction fighting for Iberian territories to be able to field units that can match 'true' Scutarii. This is in contrast with Hoplites and Mercenary Hoplites which are essentially the same with regards to their stats.

[Red Harvest]

Kraxis,

I did some tests a few days ago on the armoured hops. The 4 missile attack looked about right for the archers. Like you say, they can walk right through it. They fare a bit worse vs. the Cretans, but are still awfully strong. Regular greek hoplites were taking what I considered a balanced amount of casualties. The Balearics were weaker than I liked. As a result I'm experimenting with the Balearics/Rhodians having AP, but the lower missile attack (6 vs. 9)--essentially cutting their kill rate against lightly armoured but holding it about the same against heavy armour (since AP halves the armour defense.) In phalanx from the front the armoured hops were very tough nuts to crack with vanilla units.

I've been playing as Briton with modded ranges. Not a whole lotta shooting going on as I wiped out Germania and am squaring off vs. Gaul. My slingers with 3 missile attack and 110 range have been a bit deadly despite that low attack (and no armour piercing.) Sometimes I kill 10 screeching women with a single volley from one low exp. unit--granted the women are easy targets, but that is still a really high hit percentage. I think I'm going to cut their range back to 100, the same as I've set the vanilla archers (and many chariot archers.) That will let the archers and slingers duel a bit.

I cut 1/3rd or more off the missile attack of nearly all vanilla archer units (including elephants.) I did give Scythia and Persia a break, I set the base level Scythian and Persian horse archers at 5 attack and 110 yard range. I didn't want to break their backs. (I also reduced my high modded cost for cav upkeep for their light horse--all other factions are paying more for their cav upkeep in my game: 100 more for heavy horse, 80 for medium, 60 for light, etc.)

I haven't gotten to see too much of the increased javelin skirmish range effect yet...since I don't have any as Briton. The AI did seem to be able to hit some units with skirmishers this way. I've only applied the 65 range to foot units. I figure the mounted units have sufficient effective range already because of speed and the Cantabrian circle.

I left most elite mounted archers at 120 range--since they should have good compound bows. But I cut their attack by a third. Elite foot archers are getting 150 range and the 1/3rd cut. I still think their kill rates will be way too high, but its a start.

[Kraxis]

Interesting...
I only wanted longer range for the slingers because that is what they had compared to archers, if it is unbalancing then it definately needs to go. But troops with no armour and no shields should of course be sitting ducks for ranged troops, so I think it is fair enough.

AP forthe elite slingers is something I fully support, they were after all considered better at getting at armoured enemies [than archers], while perhaps not as deadly against normal troops.

I can accept the low cost for the Scythian HA, but rather than the Persian cav, which is an elite, shouldn't it be the eastern horse archers? Those were the troops used after all.

What about the basecost and upkeep of arcehrs compared to javelineers? I made the argument that archers are more expensive in general than javelineers in upkeep.

The mounted javelineers should indeed have a shorter range (unfortunately we have to consider them stading still), they wouldn't be able to use their entire body to weigh in into the throw, only the upper body. Naturally it would give a shorter throw.

Elite archers... Those with long ranges before? I don't consider the Archer Auxilia to be elite, and they should perhaps only get the range but an equally weak attack as normal archers.
Personally I would make Cretans the best archers, mostly because I have always liked them, but also because they are rather weak fighters, unlike the Chosens, Pharaohs and Foresters. Those three should somehow be hampered, just like the Jannisary Infantry didn't have Longbows in MTW. I don't mind good archers being able to fight good too, but they shouldn't be able to outshoot every other good arcehr out there. Besides, Cretans are mercs, thus available to all and none at the same time. Much more fair. So an attack for them around the 8-9 range would be good (making certain that even normal javelins are more deadly in 1v1 with an arrow), the others stepping downwards from there.
Good archers should be good, just not the ancient machineguns we see now.