Retinues make faster unit production

**Lichgod** · 01-19-2005, 15:25

This was new to me, never read about it either, when I noticed I was producing units in one turn that normally take two turns. I figured out that having retinues that give bonuses to reduce unit cost ALSO reduce unit production time. I noticed that adding retinue until I reached 50% discount on cost also reduced the build time for two turn units down to one turn.

Tested this with a 40% discount. The time returned to two turns to produce. I do not know if the ships taking three or four turns will produce faster with less than 50% but can test this out tonight. I expect the production time is modified by the discount with fractions rounded up.

I found this out playing Seleucids. I have Antioch making a bronze chevron/silver shield/silver sword Cataphract every turn. I am currently using Rome: Total Realism 4.1, large units, hard battles, and very hard campaign.

If interested, I can check which retinue is giving the bonuses. I know I have a priest that gives 10%, mercenary captain 10%, a Hero for 20%, and (I think) the drill master for 10%.

I feel like the last person in the world to realize this. Might even be in the game manual if I had taken time to read it. (My first thread here!)

**Nelson** · 01-19-2005, 16:32

I had no idea. It's very rare to have a 50% bonus because moving the retinues across a vast empire can be such a pain. This certainly makes it worthwhile to concentrate those skills in the right city.

**Basileus** · 01-19-2005, 16:50

This has happend to me to but i thought it was my mind playing tricks on me and didnt give it another thought heh, nice find.

**Simetrical** · 01-19-2005, 22:21

Wow, that's pretty cool. I wonder what happens if your discounts total up to 100%?

Decorated Hero: –20%
Drillmaster: –10%
Lanista: –10%
Master Smith: –10%
Mercenary Captain: –10%
Priest of Vulcan: –10%

Drat, looks like a max of –70%. Anyone up for further testing? You could add a few more ancillaries/traits and then cheat to get them all. I expect there's a hard-coded cap of some sort, but you never know!

-Simetrical

**Simetrical** · 01-19-2005, 22:25

By the way, maybe this should be moved to the Ludus Magna.

-Simetrical

**zhuge** · 01-19-2005, 22:51

Looked at the ancillary file by geraldtan and came up with:
Famous warrior - 10%
Priest of Teutatis - 10%
Priest of Vahagan - 10%
Priest of Zalmoxis - 10%

I'm not completely sure if these stack with the other ancillaries though... and 1 general is limited to only 8 ancillaries...
Also checked traits but there don't seem to be any which reduce unit cost.

Still... an interesting topic.

EDIT: Noticed that Beastmaster, Priest of Artemis and Priest of Hephaestus get Effect TrainingAnimalUnits x, where x is a particular number. Not sure if these can stack with the above...

**Simetrical** · 01-20-2005, 22:14

I excluded those because Famous Warrior and Decorated Hero are mutually exclusive, and Romans can't normally get the priests, but on reflection, you could cheat for the priests just as easily as anything else. (The restrictions regarding Romans not being able to get the priests are part of their triggers, not the ancillaries themselves.)

-Simetrical

**hrvojej** · 01-21-2005, 00:57

You can bribe people to get the ancillaries your faction cannot normally get. It would require quite a bit of luck to get them, but I guess it's doable.

**sunsmountain** · 01-21-2005, 01:40

Usually units that take 2 turns to produce have a high upkeep (with some exceptions) so I dont plan to produce many of them. In order to make many big stacks you cant go all urban cohort, for example.

But thanks to this tip this strategy (top-units only) can be effectively executed as you churn out them cohorts. I guess it would work well, based on attrition alone.

**Lichgod** · 01-22-2005, 16:30

Took awhile to reply. I found out the retinue was as stated earlier - priest of Haphaestus that gives 10%, mercenary captain 10%, a Decorated Hero for 20%, and the drill master for 10%. These modifiers do effect ships as well. Note fractions are rounded up. 50% is the sweet spot. You would need at least 70% to seen the next improvement (3 turns changed to 1 turn) and 80% to get a 4 turn ship produced in one turn.

@Sunmountain - your concern over unit maintenance is vaild but consider:

I can build Argyraspids (my best infantry at the moment) with a maintenance cost of 360 gold for 120 men (3gp per man) with attack 13 and defense 17.

OR

I can build Cataphracts (my best cav atm) with a maint cost of 140 gold for 54 men (less than 3gp per man) with attack 12 and defense 26. (I do believe cav is too cheap in this game).

Your point on high maintenance is correct if I was to build all infantry here. Instead, I use this city to make Cats and an occasional War Elephant. I have a profit of 26,000 gold a turn. I can afford to build up expensive troops. Current troop maint cost is 76k with leaders costing 9k more. I am near the end of the game with 42 regions, the year 222bc.

**Simetrical** · 01-23-2005, 00:49

The important question is if 100% will allow you to train all units for free in zero turn.

-Simetrical

**sunsmountain** · 01-23-2005, 14:27

You cant get 100%, Simetrical, 70% is the max and that still means you always need 1 turn to build. Units that normally cost 3 turns to build (max) cost 1.

As for the cav armies, i play with a self-imposed maximum of 25% cavalry. It's more authentic, more fun, and you actually get battles, instead of mow-downs.

If i were playing with Scythia i would consider all cav armies. If not, then no.