When is it worth building fort/keep/castle defence upgrades?

[Grand Duke Vytautas]

Hi fellaz! Just wondering if all those prebuild defences of the castle don't disappear once I've build the new level castle? Do you find those defences useful and in what situation do you build them? Thanks for your thoughts

[Procrustes]

Hi,

I think there was a thread about this recently. Most folks seemed to feel they were a waste. I build them only if I think the province is likely to be attacked. I believe they do disappear once you build the next level castle, but someone recently suggested otherwise. (I'm not sure anymore.) Still, if an attack seems likely I'll build them even if I plan to upgrade the castle later so that at least I will have them available during that long build period. (They're pretty cheap.)

[the tokai]

Aren't all the upgrades integrated in the next level of castle? i.e. a castle automatically has ballista towers and a 2nd stone wall, a citadel automatically gets catapult towers. I wouldn't know really, the AI never attacks my castles. And because of that, i don't think the upgrades are usefull. I've played complete 100% domination campaigns without having to defend a castle once. So yes, they are a waste.

[ichi]

Vytautas:

Ask yourself the following questions

Which describes you as a player

1) I rarely have enough money to pay my troops

2) I usually have spare cash laying around

If you answered 1 then listen to Procrustes and Tokai ad save your money for more important things

OK, if you answered 2 to the first question, ask yourself

1) I just want to win and kill - its all about the win baby!

2) I enjoy building neat things and want my electronic subjects to have the best coolest stuff

If you answered 1 then skip the upgrades except at critical chokepoints that you plan to hold for a long time and where you might get attacked a lot (Constantinople, Wessex, Flanders, Morocco, Egypt, Aragon, Denmark are examples)

If you answered 2 then build the upgrades in the provinces that you want to develop the most.

Also, sometimes building the castle upgrades is a cheap way to build something, anything, to reduce the Lazy Vice (and other Vices)that your Guvs can get in provinces where they never build anything.

ichi

[CherryDanish]

I usually have cash out the wazoo as I fight for economic/sound strategic development early in the game. I almost never use the castle upgrades, I usually just build the next level castle. Here are the exceptions a) my fortification is in FAR eastern Europe and I know the GH is coming, then I build to a citidel and build the barbican. Barbican helps in sieges and in assaults it's usually a big help in making the assault a little more costly. b) I find myself on a short timetable and I need a quick upgrade to a keep that is at risk to a newly aquired threat. NEVER advance to fortress until gunpowder is discovered, unless you need the advancement for infrastructure (ie: you need a fortress to get a building pre-req for advanced troop types or the highest lvl trading post for provinces like antioch).

[TwinMfg]

I primarily paly GA, so world conquest is not a top priority. I strategically plan where I'd like my "final" borders to be, and work toward that goal. Once it is achieved, I usually build to Castle, then all the upgrades. If the province is wealthy or a goal for another faction, I'll build to citadel and then its upgrades. "Interim" border provences only get the minimum required for whatever I'm using the provence for.

[Martok]

I almost never use the castle upgrades, I usually just build the next level castle. Here are the exceptions ..... b) I find myself on a short timetable and I need a quick upgrade to a keep that is at risk to a newly aquired threat. NEVER advance to fortress until gunpowder is discovered, unless you need the advancement for infrastructure (ie: you need a fortress to get a building pre-req for advanced troop types or the highest lvl trading post for provinces like antioch).

This is generally my philosophy as well. I only build castle defense upgrades under 2 conditions:

1) The province is under threat of imminent attack.

2) I don't plan on upgrading the castle in that province any further. This is especially true for my mediocre/average provinces where I only build a keep or a castle.

[Manstein]

I just upgrade to a castle or keep where I can train better troops, but, otherwise, I don't use them for defense much.

[kiwitt]

I tend to follow Martoks policy.

As an example I am playing Spain, I have control of Africa, France, the Med Islands and, by luck of a Rebellion, Venice.

Leon, Castille, Navarre, and Aragon are building straight to Fortress, no mid level upgrades. As I want to hang on to the Iron source for as long as possible, plus get the highest bonuses.

Other provinces on the Iberian Penisula I will build to Citadel level, then add the upgrades.

North Africa and the rest to Castle level and then add the upgrades.

Keeps, I will use for major conquests, and Forts for minor conquests or provinces in danger. I will then add upgrades to these.

[Bobablooie]

Kiwitt: the main advantage, IMO of your fortresses is that you will have the ability to build reqs for Lancers/Gendarmes, in addition to upgraded trade bldgs/ship facilities.

In general, I upgrade to castle/citadel/fortress is only when a) I want better buildings/units there or b) the province is very important geopolitically or economically (Flanders, Antioch, Venice). By the time you've reached the age of fortresses, the armies in play are so massive that a few dozen defenders inside a garrison will make no difference either way, except for costing a beseiger a few hundred troops if he decides to assault it.

In sum, critical territories get citadel/fortress status. The rest stay as forts/keeps and just produce farming and minimal trade goods.