Good idea I heard

[Powell]

[BOD]WindedHoplite (or Who) told me this. Apparently the Romans used to practice something called decimation, where the 10th man counted in the army was killed by the other 9. This was to prevent troops fleeing the field. He said this would be a cool idea for RTW and I agree....you'd have the choice of a bigger, slightly lower morale army or a smaller, higher morale army, which could have interesting tactical implications in both SP and MP. Can't really be added to the patch....and I doubt it's worthy enough to mod, especially seeing as it'd need some pretty heavy duty modding....just a thought .

[Dooz]

Well that's actually not something that was commonly practiced so much as it was done once by Gaius Cassius after his men were defeated by Spartacus in the slave revolts. Then again, that's the only instance of it I've ever known about. There might have been more.

[Kraxis]

Actually it was Alexander who did it the first time, the Romans adopted this (I don't know about the Successors).
It was always done after a battle where a unit had fled without honour, meaning they hadn't fought well enough. Fleeing was looked down on, but was accepted if you had fought hard before running.
There was a few instances of decimation, but it was a seldom practice as it had to be applied to whole units, who not only had fled but was more or less intact. Now, would I decimate my remaining 45 experienced legionaries (out of 160)? No! After such a defeat they would most likely be important to stop the enemy next turn.

[Zharakov]

The idea sounds like something we Russians would do...

ANY MAN WHO RETRETS WILL BE SHOT!

[Ar7]

Not what we Russian would do, it's what we Russians did do during WW2.

[Hortensius]

The act of "decimation" was not a common occurence in the Roman army but did have its place, and is well documented in the Roman occupation of Britain. If ever a legion, cohort or century even failed to acheive an objective, or hold a position, accountability for the problem was the order of the day. The various legions responsibility lay with the General who was the only person that could order decimation, control of a legion lay with the Legate, this is where the "passing the book" philosophy comes in, he in turn would bollock the Cheif centurion (cohort commander) and if the Legate got out of bed the wrong side any one of the 6 centurions would be ordered by the cheif "C" to carry out the horrific act of decimation, 80 men in a century, 80 discs to be drawn in lots, ten of them a different colour to the others. The unlucky ten would then be clubbed to death one by one by nine of their "comrades" taking care to break bones first before delivering fatal blows to the head, how noble of them !!!
This was of course a last resort, 99% of cases would be settled according to Roman military juidiciary i.e. demotion for the responsible officer etc.
As you can imagine this could hardly do anything for morale, but it would sure frighten them from cocking up again !!!!
If anyone is interested heres a link to a series of books (historical fiction) the 6th is currently in progress, a must for any "Rome" addict.

www.scarrow.fsnet.co.uk

[The Stranger]

it did happened a few times but in rtw i would not do it so it is not a primairy thing let first fix the fatigue and the new discovered melee missile problems

[Kraxis]

If anyone is interested heres a link to a series of books (historical fiction) the 6th is currently in progress, a must for any "Rome" addict.

www.scarrow.fsnet.co.uk

Yeah, know the guy. I won The Eagle and The Wolves in the contest about V&Vs over at the com. It is quite good, and I enjoyed every second of it. It is bloody, it is brutal, it has friendship (a rather odd one actually) and plenty of intrigue and double/tripple-crossing as well as political issues. It even has a bit of that investigative action of the good old spy novels.
But as much as I liked it, I also noticed how much Scarrow loves the Roman Legionary and overplays the effectiveness of the pilum (a whole formation of Britons vanishes under a hail of pila in one instance).

But good and bad, I think it is the best representation of how it would be to be a legionary in Brittania.

[MacBeth]

If you like the Scarrow books try the originals written by Wallace Breem in the 1960/70's - he even has general Maximus holding the Rhine when it freezes.

Anything post 1990 is a shallow copy of what the grown ups did before !

[Powell]

Eeeeeeeee NM then. What's this about fatigue needing fixing? You mean a fatigue bar so I can actually tell how much fatigue my units have left (too lazy to hover it above each individual unit) or is it a proper fatigue BUG you're on about?

[Hortensius]

Read it Mac, damn good book, it inspired Ridley Scott to do Gladiator !!!

[Spino]

Wrong, "Gladiator" is a remake of "Fall of the Roman Empire" which was released in 1964 and starred Alex Guinness, Sophia Loren and Christopher Plummer. John Logan was hired to write the script for Gladiator and was probably influenced by those books you mentioned but make no mistake, Gladiator is a remake.

[Wishazu]

Wrong, "Gladiator" is a remake of "Fall of the Roman Empire" which was released in 1964 and starred Alex Guinness, Sophia Loren and Christopher Plummer. John Logan was hired to write the script for Gladiator and was probably influenced by those books you mentioned but make no mistake, Gladiator is a remake.

Its Sir Alec Guinness

[Zharakov]

Not what we Russian would do, it's what we Russians did do during WW2.

From what my dad tells me... That theroy may not be a good one to test

Any way, decimation would be useless in RTW. Killing your own men could become more costly then losses on the field...

[ulyanov]

Its Sir Alec Guinness

It wasn't at the time, so it's OK to drop the sir, but if you really want to be a pedant it's the late Sir Alec Guinness

[Maedhros]

If decimation were included you would have to receive some kind of morale bonus for doing it to offset your losses. Or to be accurate, a "chance" at a morale bonus.

Which might then be followed by chances at bloody vices, or vices that make recruitment more expensive due to your reputation.

The issues decimation targeted could have been solved by correcting leadership failures. Even to replacing the general responsible for issueing decimation orders.

Instead of ordering his men to take responsibility he should take his own advice. For failing to build a good line, train and dicipline a proper army, or just for failing to fight on winnable ground.

[Kraxis]

Trait: Decimator
"This man has performed the Decimation one time too many, now the troops are afraid of fighting for him."
-2 to Morale.

[Ar7]

Another trait that comes before Decimator

Trait: Rough Commander
"His man have seen what it is like to fail under his command and will do anything for it not to happen again"
+1 to Morale

[Hortensius]

Dear Spino,
I have FOTRE on dvd, so i know exactly what you are saying. I never said Gladiator wasnt a remake of FOTRE (if it was???) i said "Ridley Scott drew his inspiration for the film GLADIATOR from the aforementioned book !!
So not WRONG! No offence but you are meandering as to what was said.
Anyhow "decimator -2 morale"...............like it.

[HarunTaiwan]

I miss the kill prisoners button.

sniff.

I'd like a "Decimate Archers for Friendly Fire button" though.

[Kraxis]

I'd like a "Decimate Archers for Friendly Fire button" though.

GAH! I would end up with a lot of unit with a third of the troops left. THey usually take loades of losses from their friends, and then they deal the same amount of losses back to other friends. Somehow I think it is fair.

Merc Archer 1: "Hey those archers behind are killing us!?!?!"
Merc Archer 2: "Damn, I knew something was not like home... Oh well, better do like the locals. Shoot into the melee!"

[Watchman]

Sounds like the Warhammer Orcs. "Them other greenskins is asking for trouble! Pulling faces, shouting rude insults and hurling dung. They deserve a good bashing!"