Modding suggestions for the next patch

[Duke John]

We've heard that a new patch is probably coming to sort some gameplay issues. In the past with M:TW the patches did not only that, but it also provided modders with more options. For example the unhardcoded missile stats and the ability to add multiple campaigns.

R:TW is offering us some great modding possibilities but is at the moment still limited and in some cases even less moddable than M:TW. So I propose to make a list of modding suggestions that can hopefully easily be adressed in a patch.

• Releasing Battlemap/Unit/Campaign Editor
  They are traces of these editors within the files. And we would like to see them released as it would greatly aid us in modding. Especially the campaign and unit editor are necessary if the modding community wishes to exists for a long time.

• Adding multiple factions.
  At the moment this is not possible since the faction emblems shown in the strategic part are included in stratpage_02/01.tga. There are only 21 emblems which doesn't offer us any chance to add more factions without overwriting an existing one. With M:TW - VI this was fixed by making all images single files

• Assigning production files within the campaign file
  In M:TW - VI we got the option to make mulitiple production files for building and units and assign them in the campaign file. This is no longer possible which means that you need to make a seperate installation if for example you want to play a mod and play MP. This wasn't the case before.

• Add another unit movement file
  This could contain a list of integers for each unit that is multiplied by the movement as written within the animation files. This might result into skating/sliding units but for alot of (MP) players playbalance is more important . People who don't like it can keep the integers at 1. Or instead of adding another file, it might be better to incorporate it with the unit production file.

• Set the dying age of characters
  People in the ancient period lived shorter than in medieval/napoleonic times. Modders will greatly appreciate if we can make our own mods more realistic by altering the dying age. It would be great if this can be set per faction so that fantasy modders are able to represent for example Elves better.

• Making new unitformations
  It would really nice if we could make new formations like handgunners upfront and pikemen behind, and this in a single unit. This similar to the handler units, but using that it is impossible to give the handgunners also a combat attack; so 3 attack definitions instead of only 2 now. Also add the possibility to make new types (at the moment only wardog/pig); so that by attacking you order the handgunners to the back after which the whole unit attacks. With the wardogs/pigs the the handlers get seperated and the wardogs/pigs cannot be targeted.
  This is probably very difficult to do, but it will offer us a whole lot of great modding and tactical possibilities.

To all: feel free to add your own suggestions. Preferable in the same layout as I did so that I can easily merge them with mine into a single list.

Thanks,
Duke John

[Silver Rusher]

I think it would be good if:

Special abilities of units could be changed
E.G. Only formations and movement patterns could actually be modded, not stuff like warcries and burning pigs and killing elephants as these are not practical.

(Note) I suppose that if this wasn't released I could use the phalanx as a charge pikes formation, as it would be useful although I was hoping for a pike box formation instead.

Making complex diplomatic agreements
I don't know if this is already available, but it would be good if it wasn't to have it in a patch. I'm thinking of how likely certain factions are to attack each other.

Editing unit frames
So far we can only mod the textures, but it would be good if the frames could be edited fairly easily as well.
DJ: Duplicate: This is possible with the unit editor.

Very high limit of provinces
In ancient times, there were much fewer and much smaller towns than there were in say the Renaissance. I am mainly thinking along the lines of 'in italy' rather than otherwise, as there were many Italian states which were actually smaller than the provinces themselves.

Could these be added?
DJ: Duplicate: This is possible with the campaign editor.

[SwordsMaster]

My 2 pence:

Include firearms animations, if not for any unit,as none uses firearms, at least to have them built in the game.
I think there are a few modders that will appreciate that.
DJ: Duplicate: This will be possible if we are able to import animations and models with the unit editor. We shouldn't ask CA to mod these things, but merely ask to make it possible to mod them. This will give us far more flexibility!

Modify phalanxe's "displacement to the right" speed.
It shouldnt be so exaggerated, and their still should keep their position if not engaged in combat. (I.e, when men could stand uncovered.)
DJ: This is a balance change and has nothing to do with modding.

Not allow frontal cavalry charges against a wall of spears to be successful.
DJ: This is a balance change and has nothing to do with modding.


Thats all I can think of. I guess some of those are already moddable, but it would be a nice detail if CA included them in the actual game.

Regards.
SM

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

• Ability to add projectiles

Looking around the files I saw evidence of an axe/dart projectiles that we removed at a later stage. I’d love to be able to unlock these and add more.

• Ability to add mounts

I wanted to add a chariot drawn by 4 horses but any editing of the mount file resulted in the game not starting. Please make this possible CA!

If I’m honest though DJ I think this kind of stuff will probably come in the first/only add on pack, as Viking Invasion transformed the modding possibilities of Medieval I think that CA will wait until then. Still, at least this way we can give them a hand.

[Catiline]

• Set the dying age of characters
  
  People in the ancient period lived shorter than in medieval/napoleonic times. Modders will greatly appreciate if we can make our own mods more realistic by altering the dying age. It would be great if this can be set per faction so that fantasy modders are able to represent for example Elves better.

Memo from pedants corner:

This isn't actually true, at least with regard to the Ancient - Medieval. I'm not convinced it's that different to Napoleonic either. I spent 2 months researching Roman demographics and life expectancy last year and comparatively (ie to other preindustrial societies) Roman life expectancy was high. Areas for which we have good data suggest high infant mortality, which skew down average age, but if i remeber the figrues correctly if you got past infancy you stood a very high chances of making you late 40s early 50. This wasn't bettered until the Victorian period, and was usually worse.

Memo closed

From a modders point of view I can see this would be useful though :)

[hoggy]

Just to elaborate on DJ's mail. Even better than a 'unit editor' would be a model exporter that would export models and animations from the major modelling packages into the various formats used in game. Also a guide to poly counts, LODs, animation frames and bone limitations etc.

[Silver Rusher]

Memo from pedants corner:

This isn't actually true, at least with regard to the Ancient - Medieval. I'm not convinced it's that different to Napoleonic either. I spent 2 months researching Roman demographics and life expectancy last year and comparatively (ie to other preindustrial societies) Roman life expectancy was high. Areas for which we have good data suggest high infant mortality, which skew down average age, but if i remeber the figrues correctly if you got past infancy you stood a very high chances of making you late 40s early 50. This wasn't bettered until the Victorian period, and was usually worse.

Memo closed

From a modders point of view I can see this would be useful though :)

I suppose you are right in some ways, but you also have to consider the life exectancy of Barbarians etc. as well.

[komninos]

I don’t know if some of these are possible to be done though moding but here I go.
Cavalry encirclement
The Catabran or an equivalent move that will make the cavalry circle not in front of a unit but around a set of units.
Hoplitic combat
Chanege the Millitia and Armoured Hoplites to the true way of Hoplite Phalanx and not a pike one. This means front line has the spear on low grip while 2nd and 3rd on high grip. Lines 4, 5, 6 and one are pushing with there shield forward exerting a high pressure to the enemy forcing him move back words.
Single unit formations
Defensive square, or circle where the unit makes a circle to defend if encircled. (not for pike units
Possibility to add missiles
So now missiles can be inserted like heavy stone slings of stuff sling

[khelvan]

• Add another unit movement file
  This could contain a list of integers for each unit that is multiplied by the movement as written within the animation files. This might result into skating/sliding units but for alot of (MP) players playbalance is more important . People who don't like it can keep the integers at 1. Or instead of adding another file, it might be better to incorporate it with the unit production file.

FWIW, Jerome has already told us that the movement speed is driven by two factors - the movement speed modifier and the animations of the unit itself. I am not sure how your request fits into this.

[khelvan]

The ability to change the requirements for events, specifically the Marian reforms. The ability to add new events, with requirements we can define.

Thanks,

-khel

Edit: Took out a request, I figured out how to do it already.

[Marshal Murat]

Thank you Myr, I figured it was moddable, but I ddin't think so.

[zarkis]

My wish list after several hours of modding my own game:

• A way to change the time limit of battles. With kill speed and movement mods out there especially the tight time limit in sieges is a problem.
  
  
• Possibility to create new hidden resources or any other way to restrict unit building to certain provinces.

[zarkis]

And another one (don't know how to edit my last post...):

• Increase the amount of units possible in the game. The limit seems to be 300. With 265 already in there is not much space for new ones.

[Basileios]

I would like to see some tool or plug-in for the unit editor to change the faction colour of a units texture. Today we have to change the faction colour
of a texture by editing it pixel after pixel, it would be fine if the unit editor could do that without much work... just by exchanging the faction colours...

[MonocerosDragon]

• Improve error message display
  Improve the way error messages are displayed. Currently, most errors message are only displayed when you try to exit the game after the error has occured - it would make life much easier if they were displayed in game at the point the error occurs.

[-Abbey.keeper-]

Civil War and Sub-fractions
Is it possible to be able to have a wing of the Royal family made independent?
for example, the third son and all the offsprings and adopted sons becoming the a different fraction, much like the ptolemy, selucids, pontus, macedon, etc?

or in another case, is it possible for the fraction leader to investiture the outrigger colonies and far-flung settlements to a member of the family, making them a vassal state, which would improve the efficiency of the empire as a whole, reducing unrests due to the distance to the capital.

i know it might need a different game altogether, but thats my wish list.

[Steppe Merc]

Is it possible that you can make it possible to have three weapons? For example, a spear, a sword and a bow. Right now I think you can only have 2....

[dhague]

Move Population-Model/City-Size to start-up text file: IMO, the strategy side of single-player mods would be improved if there were some player control over population. For example: Population growth could be an "S-curve" for class of city defensive wall (interior space limits population). Rate of growth factors would be tweakable. "Auto-build" would not upgrade city walls. With the current model, many regions make a profit at smaller size but lose money as they grow too big. This would also give a player handle on the distance from capital problem that makes large distant cities uncontrollable. This could also allow a time-of-ownership factor that would fade out the culture penalty. This would support the empire model of core-cities with remote tax-farm colonies. Just my suggestion.

UPDATED IDEA: From experiments with export_descr_buildings.txt, the "population growth formula" is hardcoded with the exception of the capability "population_growth_bonus" in temple buildings (the same "capability" line in type_market buildings is evidently ignored). Also, the growth bonus will not accept a negative number. If the hardcoding was changed to recognize a negative number in one or more building types (for example core_building), this would give us the ability to decrease the growth rate in the larger settlements. It does seem unrealistic that a huge city can have a growth rate of 11% per turn.

[sharrukin]

Would it be possible to increase the advantage that height gives you on the battlefield. Seems a little toned down from MTW, not as realistic. If this isn't in the works for the patch can it be done through modding and if so how?

[a_b_danner]

Allow the editing of campaign WIN conditions - ie, have to take 75 provinces or 100 provinces. This is important if a lot of provinces are added to the map.

[King Yngvar]

Suggestion: Put weapon types in the "descr_model_battle" file. Would like to be able to give my Gothic infantry swords without needing a 3D editing software



Also, adding the ability to change unit "card" icon as well in the same file would be nice...

[Siebharrin]

- Being able to mod/create wonders, maybe even the option to be able
to build them?

- Some way of implementing magecraft? attacking that drains the
casters stamina and/or drains the enemys stamina / speed whatnot.
Possibly script? A tad too much though.. **wishful thinking**

[Helvetia]

I'm dismayed at the fact that logistics are ignored again in the Total War series. The supply of armies was (and still is) a serious limitation on operations.

The system need not be complicated, but would require the addition of "military supply" storage units in cities or forts and the creation of "supply train" units to follow armies and move supplies from place to place. The revenue of a faction would then have to be used for building and maintaining these consumable supplies. Needless to say, operations could then not be as wide ranging and aggressive as it is possible now.

I would make the logistics system an "on/off" option as obviously many players would not want it in the game. But given such an excellent tactical simulation of ancient warfare, I see no reason why the strategic and tacitcal simulation could not be even better with logistics included.

These comments and suggestion are valid for Shogun, Medieval and Rome Total War, of course.

[tommh]

Faction wide conditionals (i.e. only one of a building allowed, current existing count of building or unit, Resource present anywhere in faction, etc.

population cost of a unit set in the unit file and independent of it's physical representation

seperate retrain from recruit to allow units to be retrained but not recruited (for instance old legions after the Marian reforms)

Be able to have units upgrade. After a event or trigger all new units of a type are the new unit and old ones can retrain to become it.

More error info when the game ctds

[Dino]

First of all, I want to say, Rome: Total War is my favorite game. But I’d be glad to see REAL nomads. Since Sid Meyer Civilization we can see identity of nomads and resident tribes. But in RTW all prerequisites for creating of real nomads are accomplished. It may be realized in that way:
1. Nomads don’t have any fixed constructions. Captured towns may be laid under tribute, but nomads can’t build or upgrade buildings.
2. Instead of towns nomads have movable strategic unit – HORDE. Horde has population (like towns has). Population pays taxes and form recruiting base.
3. Instead of manufacturing buildings nomadic leaders have retinue members (blacksmith, bow maker, etc). So, nomads can produce units everywhere they stop (if horde has governor with appropriate retinue).
I think, by such hordes realistic nomads can be simulated.

P.S. Excuse my poor English.

[tommh]

The previous post made me think of the following: allow unit presence requirments to building and recruiting. Allow expenditure of units for building and recruiting.

[Mr Frost]

Extend the Upgrade General feature {when fixed ;p} to allow other units to upgrade to a later/improved model retaining whatever experience that unit had {for a suitable cost ofcourse} .

An example of the use of this would be : I want to allow Pre-Marian units to be {after the Marius Event} directly upgradeable into post Marius units . Velites become Light Auxillia , Roman Archers - Archer Auxillia , Hastati - Auxillia , Princepes and Triarii - Early Legion , Equites to Roman Cav or Cav Auxillia etc .
It should cost some sensible fraction of the new units' cost and retain the origonal units experience .
This would give the Senate a good way to better prepare for the Civil War .

[MCT]

I want the battle log files back (like in MTW).

They are necessary to import the result of the battle into external programs, for example a custom campaign tool.

[Al Khalifah]

The best suggestion I've read so far is the one to make units have generic colours in their textures. This would save us having to create different texture files for each faction that we want to use a particular unit. This wasn't a problem in M:TW, although I appreciate that the graphics of that game were simpler.
At the moment, there is either a lot of duplicate work or units have to all look the same - like the Green Mercaneries.

This would also allow bribery or conquert of different types of units into your faction - one feature of M:TW that I miss in this version. As your Empire expands, its only natural that you would integrate units of the cultures you conquer into your armed forces - Mercaneries don't quite capture this feeling.

[Vetinari]

;	!!!	Bird skeleton not implemented yet	!!!


;type				crow
;skeleton			fs_bird
;indiv_range		40
;model_flexi		data/models_unit/animal_crow_200.cas, 6
;model_flexi		data/models_unit/animal_crow_100.cas, 12
;model_sprite		60, data/sprites/arab_horse_sprite.spr

Implement the bird skeleton to allow for an easy method of creating flying units. This would broaden the scope of many mythology based mods by a great deal.