Which Empire...

**Stefan the Berserker** · 01-28-2005, 21:51

The Confusion is caused through you stated that the British Empire was equal to status with the Roman Empire. But the Roman Empire had no more Rivals, Britain had several dangerous Rivals (France, Russia, Germany).

**Stefan the Berserker** · 01-28-2005, 21:54

What do you think of a Thracian/Dacian Empire, streching from the Black Sea to the North of Italy, pushing into Greece and maybe into southern Poland and Austria?

Timeframe last two Centuries. Only modern Empires.

Nazi Empire taken out through I don't want them to be discussed...

**monkian** · 01-28-2005, 22:45

Originally Posted by Stefan the Berserker

Timeframe last two Centuries. Only modern Empires.

Nazi Empire taken out through I don't want them to be discussed...

Then how can you include the Japaneese 'empire' gained in WW2 ?

They murdered, raped and totured the Chineese civiliians without remorse or feeling.

The rape of NanKing ring any bells ?

**Stefan the Berserker** · 01-29-2005, 16:51

Because they still were a Constitutional Monarchy of the european style from the 19th Century, like all other Empires stated, and did not change their Laws and Constitution. The Emperor controlled the Country, not Primeminister Tojo Hideki and his Facists Retainers.

So the Japanese would have been able to retun to a moderate policy and even past refoms on the Monarchy that their political system would be strongly like those of Japan today. The NSDAP-Regime in Germany was unable to do this, if they would have won they just installed equal Regimes in other Nations and continued their racial Terror against Jews and Slavs. They did be unable to live in Peace.

Anyway, Japan in WW2 was doing just the same Imperialist policies as all european Nations and the USA did in the 19th Century and WW1. The Japanese expansion policy in WW2 is identical to those of WW1, when they put their selves on the Side of the 'Allies'.

In WW1 they recognised that Germany would loose the War and joined the Entente to grasp German Territories in Asia, thus were Tsingtao, the Marshall Islands and german 'Influencial Zones' in China. During the first and second Sino-Japanese-War Japan attempted to conquer China, partly with Succsess. In WW2 France and the Netherlands collapsed and in 1941 they expected Britain would be defeated as well, so they attempted a large Militery Strike to take their Colonies at a minium of Risk.

The Plan failed because they went on too much Risk, Britain did not fall and the Roosevelts support of Britain's Asia-Policies forced them to fight Great Britain, British-India, Australia and the USA at one time.* That was out of limit to Japan's Militery and Econnomic Power, which caused their defeat.

If they had not declared war on the USA and Great Britain, instead had boosted their efford in China, did not join the Axis Pact and would have claimed the Colonies of practically no more existant France and Holland they would have got what they wanted. Smaller bait, but still pretty good.

Through Great Britain would have not declared War on Japan, through their own struggles in Europe, if Japan had attacked those Territories. The USA and the Soviet Union wouldn't have done either.

But as said, too much on one Strike.

*In Case of Japans declaration of War against the British Empire, the USA would have probalby joined up the Allies aswell through the danger of Japanese agression against the Phillipines (US-Protectorate). So they thaugt they did have to make the first move and destroy the american Navy in the Pacific, hopeing that the USA would try to cheasefire after beeing unable to defend the west coast. But yet again, it just didn't happen as planned.

They murdered, raped and totured the Chineese civiliians without remorse or feeling.

Like any other Imperialist Nation did with the victims of their Expansion. What was Britain doing in India, what was France doing in Algeria, what was Russia doing in Poland, what did the USA do with native Americans? Equally the same, just earlier in timeframe. In the later Timeframe you have Dejavu and the USA makes the same in Vietnam, which the Japanese captured in WW2.

I think the Opion you have is caused through:

A) Japan allied itself with Nazi Germany and is this way by wrong thaugt to be politically equal.

B) The Imerialism of Japan happened in the 20th Century intead of the 18nd and 19th Century.

**Ar7** · 01-29-2005, 19:45

Imperial Russia deserved it the most to survive, and they would have survived if given just a couple of years more time for the reforms to finish and if they didn't join WW1.

The Russian revolution had the most impact on the world, the forming of the USSR, the Cold War. Perhaps if there was no Stalin, then Hitler would not have dared to start WW2. The Imperial Russia would never have signed the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact and thus Hitler would not have attacked without a mostly safe eastern border.

Globalization would have begun earlier, since there would not have been any iron curtain.

**monkian** · 02-03-2005, 15:28

Originally Posted by Stefan the Berserker

Because they still were a Constitutional Monarchy of the european style from the 19th Century, like all other Empires stated, and did not change their Laws and Constitution. The Emperor controlled the Country, not Primeminister Tojo Hideki and his Facists Retainers.

So the Japanese would have been able to retun to a moderate policy and even past refoms on the Monarchy that their political system would be strongly like those of Japan today. The NSDAP-Regime in Germany was unable to do this, if they would have won they just installed equal Regimes in other Nations and continued their racial Terror against Jews and Slavs. They did be unable to live in Peace.

Anyway, Japan in WW2 was doing just the same Imperialist policies as all european Nations and the USA did in the 19th Century and WW1. The Japanese expansion policy in WW2 is identical to those of WW1, when they put their selves on the Side of the 'Allies'.

In WW1 they recognised that Germany would loose the War and joined the Entente to grasp German Territories in Asia, thus were Tsingtao, the Marshall Islands and german 'Influencial Zones' in China. During the first and second Sino-Japanese-War Japan attempted to conquer China, partly with Succsess. In WW2 France and the Netherlands collapsed and in 1941 they expected Britain would be defeated as well, so they attempted a large Militery Strike to take their Colonies at a minium of Risk.

The Plan failed because they went on too much Risk, Britain did not fall and the Roosevelts support of Britain's Asia-Policies forced them to fight Great Britain, British-India, Australia and the USA at one time.* That was out of limit to Japan's Militery and Econnomic Power, which caused their defeat.

If they had not declared war on the USA and Great Britain, instead had boosted their efford in China, did not join the Axis Pact and would have claimed the Colonies of practically no more existant France and Holland they would have got what they wanted. Smaller bait, but still pretty good.

Through Great Britain would have not declared War on Japan, through their own struggles in Europe, if Japan had attacked those Territories. The USA and the Soviet Union wouldn't have done either.

But as said, too much on one Strike.

*In Case of Japans declaration of War against the British Empire, the USA would have probalby joined up the Allies aswell through the danger of Japanese agression against the Phillipines (US-Protectorate). So they thaugt they did have to make the first move and destroy the american Navy in the Pacific, hopeing that the USA would try to cheasefire after beeing unable to defend the west coast. But yet again, it just didn't happen as planned.

Like any other Imperialist Nation did with the victims of their Expansion. What was Britain doing in India, what was France doing in Algeria, what was Russia doing in Poland, what did the USA do with native Americans? Equally the same, just earlier in timeframe. In the later Timeframe you have Dejavu and the USA makes the same in Vietnam, which the Japanese captured in WW2.

I think the Opion you have is caused through:

A) Japan allied itself with Nazi Germany and is this way by wrong thaugt to be politically equal.

B) The Imerialism of Japan happened in the 20th Century intead of the 18nd and 19th Century.

I'll think you'll find Britain was alot less harsh to the Indians than the Japaneese were to the Chineese or the French were to the Spanish.

**Evil_Maniac From Mars** · 02-03-2005, 16:17

A note to the British Empire map: New Guinea was part of the German Empire until WWII, when troops from Austrailia and New Zealand siezed and never returned it. To my knowledge it was never British.

**AntiochusIII** · 02-04-2005, 02:58

Erm... to point out a small mistake in the British empire map: the small area between Burma and Malaysia remains independent in a feudal kingdom-state of Siam. The British DO have influence in the area but the kings of Siam claims these areas as their vassals.. and was agreed by Britain as they want to keep the peaceful kingdom alive as the French were just at the other side of Siam at the time...