Patch Readme now available

[dedmoroz]

Some good news regarding the tactical AI. Obake Date just posted this at the com...

http://p223.ezboard.com/fshoguntotal...ID=19903.topic

Re: Whoaa! Please dont sabotage sallying CA!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
One of the issues surrounding this was the AI's tendency to charge you and get annihilated by the towers on the walls. Players would do this, rinse and repeat until the besiegers were decimated at virtually no loss to the besieged.

Dropping the number of sally's eliminates this potential, thereby improving gameplay. I can also tell you that the likelihood of the AI charging up to the walls is now GREATLY diminished.

If you want to sally, you're going to have to move out of range of the walls, making it much more risky.

And then he posted this answer to a follow up post...

Frogmop, even your artificially inflated intelligence should have been able to pick up on the subtle little hint I gave: "...the likelihood of the AI charging up to the walls is now GREATLY diminished."

In fact, the AI does just what you suggest. The only time it comes in to the walls now is after it has routed all of your troops and is chasing you back to the city. Even then, in many cases it will stop short.

Clearly this is GREAT news for sally/siege battles. I only hope regular tactical battles have been given similar treatment.

OMG !!! OMFG !!!
will they realy fix that?????
Thank you God, this is the happiest day of my life!

Please for the love of Banana Split somebody confirm that this AI behavior will be fixed:

No fix to the family members strolling around lonely while the arge armeis are controlled by captains.

[Akka]

Looks promising so far :)

I'm just disappointed that bribing is only doubled (honestly, ten times bigger would be adequate), and that no action was taken to diminish the insane flow of money you can get quickly.

I strongly hope also that diplomacy was tweaked quite a bit to make it worthwile.

[Spino]

Yet another post by Obake Date...

http://p223.ezboard.com/fshoguntotal...art=61&stop=80

Re: Patch Details
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I've had dawn battles Prometheus. No sunset battles yet though, although this is more likely due to random happenstance than anything else. I HAVE had late afternoon battles as well. Point being that the time of battles IS varied.

There are a few things in the patch that are going to have a HUGE overall impact on battles. First and foremost is the resolution of the Pri/Sec bug. That alone will make a big difference. It will also require a bit more micromanagment in some cases, particularly with dual weapon, non-ranged cavalry. Secondly is a fix that CA implemented in the use of shields. This was something that the community didn't pick up on, but many units were not using their shields correctly, in particular when marching. This made them exceptionally vulnerable to arrow fire. This change is going to make ranged fire less overwhelming. It will STILL be effective if handled correctly, but nowhere near as devastating as it is under 1.1.

With these and other changes that were implemented, you'll find that battles can be much more challenging and they are DEFINITELY more tactical in nature.

I'm a little confused by his statement regarding dual weapon cavalry. Why should we have to micromanage dual weapon, non-ranged cavalry at all? I thought they were supposed to automatically switch to their secondary weapon? Can anyone provide testimony as to whether the AI automatically switches to secondary weapons? I must assume this will not be in the patch.

[Bob the Insane]

I'm a little confused by his statement regarding dual weapon cavalry. Why should we have to micromanage dual weapon, non-ranged cavalry at all? I thought they were supposed to automatically switch to their secondary weapon? Can anyone provide testimony as to whether the AI automatically switches to secondary weapons? I must assume this will not be in the patch.

I was my understanding that the patch was delayed to implement a fix for that very issue... I can only guess that the comment on micromanagement is based on the fact that a lot of units will get there arses handed to them if they get into hand to hand fighting....

[Chelifer]

Fixed missile collision code to reduce friendly fire casualties.

What does this mean exactly?

[ChaosLord]

If I had to guess, i'd say it means units directly infront of archers/peltasts/slingers(or intermingled with them) won't get shot in the back. I don't think they would make friendly arrows lest likely to kill when shooting into a big melee battle.

[Red Harvest]

Yes, the devil is in the details with FF. There are several things they *should* have done particularly in the logic of fire at will. It doesn't sound like they changed the FAW logic, but I hope to be proven incorrect. And the fire command delay. That is the other absolutely maddening aspect.

[Grand Duke Vytautas]

Oh my God! Can't wait no longer for the patch! These news are just so great! Can't wait for a real ai challenge!

[aw89]

Yay! whoho! patch, got to reinstall rtw when it comes out, should i reformat the whole computer?

now im going to read my book, go to sleep, drag through the entire day at school and run home for news on the patch... (go nothing better to do... hehe)

[ulyanov]

I don't have a problem with the cease fire delay - experienced units stop firing smartly, less experienced don't. That's pretty normal, really.

One thing I didn't see - the Wonder bonus dropping off after 4 turns.

[CBR]

Friendly fire is no longer a problem. You have to give the order to fire at an engaged enemy unit.


CBR

[Chelifer]

Friendly fire is no longer a problem. You have to give the order to fire at an engaged enemy unit.
CBR

You mean, say archers will not fire at an engaged unit unless directly ordered?
That would be good too, probably.

[CBR]

Yes they automatically stop. Even if giving the order to do it, some men might not shoot if they are too close to a friendly soldier that blocks the view. It can still give lots of friendly fire so you still have to be careful.

One example: If you have several javelin armed units standing behind a friendly unit the unit right behind it might not shoot at all while those standing further back will shoot (and hit friendlies too)


CBR

[Spino]

Yes, the devil is in the details with FF. There are several things they *should* have done particularly in the logic of fire at will. It doesn't sound like they changed the FAW logic, but I hope to be proven incorrect. And the fire command delay. That is the other absolutely maddening aspect.

I'll have a minor fit if I see missile troops killing guys in their own unit. It's such a ridiculous issue.

[Locklear]

The "minimal UI" option in preferences.txt sounds interesting. Will try that right away, maybe it'll bring back the translucent STW/MTW interface.

[Akka]

Yes they automatically stop. Even if giving the order to do it, some men might not shoot if they are too close to a friendly soldier that blocks the view. It can still give lots of friendly fire so you still have to be careful.

One example: If you have several javelin armed units standing behind a friendly unit the unit right behind it might not shoot at all while those standing further back will shoot (and hit friendlies too)


CBR

Ah, well, so in other words, they came back with the flawless MTW system ? :D

[Kraxis]

CBR, have you been in on a little patchtesting? Not that I'm questioning you or something (you know me), but you seem rather confident in your posts.

I mean you were rather positive towards a fix of the phalanx drift and now the FF issue.

Anyway, I'm happy that the FF issue has been noticed at least, but I fear that archers standing behind slinger (obvious place) will still kill slingers when the enemy gets close or is at the bottom of a hill.

And te phalanx drift. Well if CA had made it as a feature they would most likely not 'fix' it as it was their intention.

[CBR]

Yes you are correct, I was part of the team testing the patch.

Although Im still not a fan of the high speed in RTW the minimal UI along with better grouping and FF fixed makes battles a lot better.


CBR

[Kraxis]

Ahhh good.

Then I believe you when you say the drift has been 'fixed'. THE question is just how much? Can we now use Guard? For I hate to see my phalanxes turn after they have engaged a few men on their far end, and thus open my carefully ordered battleline.

About the FF, do the archers still kill men in other units if they have to shoot through it (because they have to aim quite low), or can they now shoot upwards like catapults and archers in MTW?

[CBR]

I dont see any drift at all. They spend a few seconds looking at the enemy, shuffling a bit, and then go forward to engage. Phalanx v phalanx is pretty bloody.

I dont think I have seen any FF or maybe very little in the situation you mention. Archers seem to be a lot more careful where they shoot.

But you will see for yourself when the patch comes.


CBR

[Red Harvest]

Great info, CBR. I've got a list of questions over at the .com. If I bring them over here would you be able/willing to answer some or are you restricted?

Do archers/slingers still shoot umpteen ranks deep or are they limited to the first several rows?

I am very glad to hear they implemented a FAW/FF system similar to MTW. It might not have been perfect, but I had few complaints about it.

[CBR]

Well I have signed a NDA and I might have said too much already so lets leave it at that shall we

Archers work in same way as before.

As you can see from list a lot of things have been fixed and overall I think its a great patch. And I need a break heh


CBR

[Kraxis]

I dont see any drift at all. They spend a few seconds looking at the enemy, shuffling a bit, and then go forward to engage. Phalanx v phalanx is pretty bloody.

I dont think I have seen any FF or maybe very little in the situation you mention. Archers seem to be a lot more careful where they shoot.

But you will see for yourself when the patch comes.


CBR

I must say I'm stunned This is great! Not only do the phalanxes fight head on now, they even get in there and fight unlike before! Now I will never leave my beloved Seleucids again!!!

Have you tried a situation where the phalanx has to fight in a square? They often drop out of formation for no reason as it is now.

Red... Lets drain him of any useful info and discard the empty husk.

[Kraxis]

Well I have signed a NDA and I might have said too much already so lets leave it at that shall we

CBR

Oh... ok then... You shall retain your husk.

[Grifman]

That's one hell of a list, especially when you consider that it's only a preliminary one!

No mention of whether the strategic AI has been adjusted to build far fewer naval units! I must assume this will be in the patch because countless people have complained about it. Strange as it sounds to the uninitiated this is a critical issue that must be addressed in the campaign game!

Yeah, that was one of the one's I was really looking for. The AI wasted tremendous resources on fleets while I destroyed their armies. I really hope they fixed this one - it wouldn't seem that hard. Though it does seem now that that AI will actually use its fleets now.

Grifman

[AntiochusIII]

Wait a minute. If they USE their whole massive fleets on a true onslaught wouldn't I got NO chance of survival at all in the seas this time?

(That stupid seer's accent.) Oh no... Oh Baal, please help me, I'll sacrifice my neighbor's son, I promise!

Never mind me. At least the patch is out... WAHOOO!!!!!

I just hope that there's more than what the readme says.

[Red Harvest]

If the naval auto resolve has been fixed (and we can only hope) then we should have a fighting chance. Presently, as it is on VH/VH, I keep literally 4 or 5 boats and do careful hops with armies. The rest of the time they stay in port... I don't have a chance at winning in autoresolve, against the hordes of barbarian fleets (or hordes of Romans.) The rebels often have pirate fleets larger than my own.

Too bad CBR can't talk...I'm hoping that transferring units by sea will require more boats... That would make navies important.

[BalkanTourist]

Has anyone reported that bug or is it just me? I was playing the Seleucids and my capital was besieged and had maximum units in it. A mature son appears...........near Rome!!!!!!! How am I supposed to get him where I need him?! I hope that has been fixed as well! Also, I was wondering why my Egyptian generals were dying so fast. After I lost like 3 or 4 easily, I stopped using my generals in battle at all.
P.S. The more I play RTW, the more I regret wasting my $50 on it. I think I am re-installing MTW:VI and hope for MTW2.

[Colovion]

*crosses fingers*

[Kraxis]

Also, I was wondering why my Egyptian generals were dying so fast. After I lost like 3 or 4 easily, I stopped using my generals in battle at all.

It is adressed... Didn't you read the readme? The Egyptian generals now get the proper hitpoints.