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  1. #1
    Member Member Pooma's Avatar
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    Default Re: What is the best army ever?

    I'm going to throw a weird one into the mix and go with the Commonwealth forces of WW1, and not just becuase everyone else seems to forget about them all the time! In the interest of reason I'm going to argue only for the forces available at the beginning and the end of that particular horror-show though.

    There were only 5 (???) divisions in the British Army at the dawn of WW1, with Canada, Australia and New Zealand able to supply troops that were in essence homogenous. They were mostly expended (how I hate that term, but it does fit here) by the time of the First Ypres, but by that time even the germans had recognised them as incomparible.

    They were a tiny force, therefore mobile and cheap. They were a social revolution in their all-volunteer status. Their technology was first rate, the artillery piece of their day was a positive ion cannon compared to the guns of even 30 years before. (Although the French probably did have the lead there).

    Recall that at Mons the BEF comported itself well, actually better than well, it was an army of thoroughbred riflemen against an army still adapting to the lessens of effective infantry firepower. Don't forget that it was able to retreat intact from Mons after the collapse of the French frontier war. With it's equipment mostly intact, and that there was only one mutiny, which was basically overcome by an officer with a toy trumpet if you believe the story (or possibly propaganda in this case).

    That army was able to break down into its constituents for movement, and yet still act coherently - at the dawn of radio communcation, a feet the Mongols are often singled out for (admitedly with no radio at all, but their opponents weren't able to lay out telephone lines either).

    How about the forces at the end of the war? Well, strange to tell the Commonwealth ran rampant, and started to see a lot of the characteristics of infantry warfare of WW2. Fire-and-movement, and the idea that you really could maneuvre, but only as part of a battlespace managed by officers with a solid awareness of what was going on was largely a Canadian innovation; and one that was made by officers at the front. In the last few weeks of the war British and Canadian troops were storming defenses long considered impenetrable and took more prisoners than everyone else combined.

    So we've got:

    Solid leadership at the middle level
    Ridiculously capable leadership at low level
    With the innovation of the field telephone integration of artillery with infantry for vertical integration
    With the innovation of moving the machine guns up as part of an assault - a much lower level combined force
    Very solid logistics


    And dicipline enough to survive actually going to hell and staying there. I'd put the Western Front up as being just as solid as Stalingrad as an example of mans ability to invent gigantic piles of crap to haul himself into. Except that it lasted far longer, and people were throwing poison gas at one another. Also that's where the flamethrower got invented. Also the shotgun with bayonet attached. And the trench-mortar. And tunnelling under your opponent to pretty much build the biggest bomb your technology can allow under him. Then having to fight him underground as he does the same thing right back at you.

    Actually stuff it, since they could take that for years, since Canadian troops could still fight after Vimy Ridge, since British troops still fought after Passchendaele and all the other battles around and no one has suggested that they killed large numbers of Belgian civilians they get my vote for their conduct from beginning to end.

    I guess the difference here is that the Commonwealth often feels it was dragged into a war it alone couldn't possibly gain from (possibly a bit unfair on the doughboys, but American did gain immeasurably in stature and was able to impose it's peace on a war Britain largely paid for), and that it was 'ordinary blokes' dragged off to fight. They did. They won. But more than that: some of them were even telling jokes in a hell I can't even imagine. By and large they came home and lived blameless lives.

    They were just as tough and as powerful as we needed to be, stuck it out for as long as we needed them, and then they went home and rebuilt. If we are trying for any kind of measurement for the quality of an army it surely must be it's value to the country it represents. Since the commonwealth armed forces represented so many countries (let's remember the Indian troops who died, just to name on other forgotten group) and re-inforced the bond between so many of them I can't see how anyone can match the contribution that they made. I hope I have also argued with a measure of success that like everyone else who has ever been ground into meat for his country they paid the full price for that measure of value.

  2. #2

    Default Re: What is the best army ever?

    how can you compare a german WW2 army (with GUNS - things that kill people instantly, and from long range) with an ancient army (with SWORDS)?

    you can't fairly compare them, surely? i don't think you can and that's my opinion,

  3. #3
    |LGA.3rd|General Clausewitz Member Kaiser of Arabia's Avatar
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    Default Re: What is the best army ever?

    Wehrmacht

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    The US is marching backward to the values of Michael Stivic.

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    Vermonter and Seperatist Member Uesugi Kenshin's Avatar
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    Default Re: What is the best army ever?

    That's a tough one. I think I would go with the German army in WWII. At the outset it was a superbly trained, well equipped, well motivated, disciplined, efficient and mobile fighting force with some of the best generals in the world and some of the best tactical and strategic innovations of the century. If Hitler was not such an imbecile and a racist they could have won the war. If they had finished off the RAF, not attacked Russia, disowned Japan after Pearl Harbor they may have won. Of course if Hitler was not such a bad guy then them winning would not have been so bad. A loss of independence and a short war, short due to blitzkrieg, would not be so bad compared to how Europe treated Germany before it uited to form the most powerful European nation of the time.
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    Lord of the House Flies Member Al Khalifah's Avatar
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    Default Re: What is the best army ever?

    Post WW2:
    The Israeli Armed Forces
    Israel is perhaps the only nation in the world with modern armed forces that is in a state where the nation itself is in constant danger of an armed assault and has been since its birth.
    The IAF uses slightly outdated American technologies in addition to home built ones, but the true strength of the force is the training and experience of its soldiers. At current, man for man, I do not think there is another armed-forces in the world that combines such discipline throughout its ranks and officers, combined with modern weapons and combat technologies, steeped in military experience.

    The opening of the 6 day war is simply stunning and all students of stratergy should be familiar with not just the combat itself, but also with the build up to appreciate how serious a predicament Israel was in. The air offensive against Egypt is superior to Pearl Harbor in that it rendered the enemy completely impotent in the skies by destroying nearly all their aircraft on the ground and making the runways unusable with tarmac-shredding penetration bombs so that a second wave could destroy the remainder. In the ground operations in the Sinai, within 4 days the Israeli army had destroyed the largest and most well equiped Arab army while simultaneously defending itself against several others.

    I'm waiting for criticism and objection (America cud kick ur a$$!!!)...
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  6. #6

    Default Re: What is the best army ever?

    The German Armed Forces. 1936-1945

    You must also include the Waffen SS despite their politics. They, especially the armored units, played critical roles in the east and in normandy. The Germans were on the cutting edge of everything military throughout the war, and if it wasnt for Hitlers decisions, they would have surely come out the victors.

    Ironically, if it wasnt for Hitler, they probably wouldnt have been the best in the world..


    The US military of today's time is a close second. It is before unheard of to take over countries with so few casualties.. and if the american public was willing to accept more casualties and an aggressive foreign policy, who knows how much the US could conquer..

  7. #7
    Vermonter and Seperatist Member Uesugi Kenshin's Avatar
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    Default Re: What is the best army ever?

    I believe they are the IDF, they share the acronym with the Ireland Defense Force and the Iceland Defense Force. At least those two anyway. They are also a contender, definately for post World War II, but I think the US may beat them out. The Israelis do have some of the best if not the best Spec Ops though.
    "A man's dying is more his survivor's affair than his own."
    C.S. Lewis

    "So many people tiptoe through life, so carefully, to arrive, safely, at death."
    Jermaine Evans

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