Austria-Hungary Survival

**Stefan the Berserker** · 01-30-2005, 21:47

I developed a Plan, similar to the Plan of the assasinated Franz-Ferdinand, how to federalise the Austrian Empire.

This is how the Empire was in 1914:

All Provinces are split in to either the German or Hungarian Dominion. That also ment that the official Language was either German or Hungarian, also in schools. Political Rights for Minorites are practically not existant. There are two Parilaments, one for the Austrian and one for the Hungarian Dominion.

The changes:

Now there are eight Dominions with own Parilaments, as subsidiaries of the common imperial Parilament (Federal Gouverment like in the USA). The Dominions do now reflect ethnicity, and in each Dominion the natvive tongue is the official Language. German is defined as the common Languge, teached at school and used by the imperial administration and militery.

The rights of the Dominions are expanded to have own laws, self-define their schoolprogramme and cultural policy.

The Federal Gouverment: Two Chambers, commonly elected Parilament and the 'Chamber of Peoples' representing the Dominions like german Bundesrat.

The whole State is called "Austria" and the head of State wears the title "Emperor of the Danube peoples".

The Polish Provinces Galicia, Lodomeria and Bukowina are combined to the Mupped State "Poland". Relatives of the Emperor are made 'King of Poland', maybe House Habsburg-Toskana. Thus new Poland is officially indepandant, but through the rule by relatives of the Austrian Emperor and a defensive pact that includes Austrian forces based in the Country de-facto a protectorate.

This has the sense of a Liveinsurance to use the Polish Nationalists against the Russians incase of War with them.

Would the Empire with these Reforms and no War against it have survived until today?

**Gregoshi** · 01-30-2005, 22:01

Stefan, interesting idea, but what holds it together? In other words, what are the benefits that all these countries would have by being together vs them being their own nation?

**Stefan the Berserker** · 01-30-2005, 22:32

Originally Posted by Gregoshi

Stefan, interesting idea, but what holds it together? In other words, what are the benefits that all these countries would have by being together vs them being their own nation?

A) The Rule of the Emperor and his control of the Militery. Also he is Archduke of Austria, King of Hungary etc. So that the Monarchy exists within all Dominions.

B) Like in Germany, the rich dominions financially support to weaker ones. So efficently the Standard of Live is higher.

C) The internal Trade is Econnomically important. The rural areas of Croatia and Hungary and the industrial areas in Austria and Czechia have natural interesst to exchange their products. With the Freetradezone and the common Currency these econnomic ties are stable and profitable for each Country.

D) Defense. Having the imperial Austrian Army with 500.000 well equiped Men or small national Armies as a defense against so dangerous neighbours as Germany, Russia and Italy makes a huge diffrence. The People will feel Safer, expecially if the Propaganda always reports on Russias expansion plans.

E) Why? The Countries have all souvereign they want to express their Patriotism and Culture, there did be no more likelyhood with violent Nationalism anymore.

F) Pan-European Ideology and Catholic Religion. The State in his Constitution and Political Education of the Youth propagandises himself as an model for a unified Europe under the Christian Faith.

**Kaiser of Arabia** · 01-31-2005, 04:44

How about this.
Austria, Tirol, Bohemia all have 1 leader, hungary poland slovakia another, and those dalmatian nations another, and then above them is one empoerer elected by one of those three men and the parliment?

**Nowake** · 01-31-2005, 19:06

Hi Stefan, long time no see

Regarding your post, it was partially tried after 1860, but the hungarians could not tolerate the rise of the slovakians and romanians. Especially my people, as they were majoritary by far in Transilvania.

And no, I don't think it would have lasted even so. The nations had too many blood feuds. And think about Gorbaciov; when you give more liberties to the people after an authoritary rule, they'll see you weak, exploit the new advantages and force your hand 'till the end.

My 2 cents..

**Stefan the Berserker** · 01-31-2005, 19:56

What about this one, taken out of the poll. Five Dominions, for the strongest and most important ethnic Groups. Germans, Hungarians, Czechs and Croats...

Polish again taken out to be a Protectorate, through their Nationalism is dangerous...

**Mouzafphaerre** · 02-01-2005, 05:44

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IMHO, the ethnic/religious based unities or fragmentation would sooner or later lead to the empire's end. An empire can stand up once the imperial identity superimposes the ethnic/religious one. ROMANVM SVM, in other words.

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**conon394** · 02-01-2005, 06:44

I can't see has either Germany or Russia will be happy about creating some kind state for Poland, even inside of an Austrian Imperial framework. Considering Austria was already hostile toward Russia and a junior partner to Germany, I don't see how it could afford to aggravate either.

**PanzerJaeger** · 02-01-2005, 07:34

Voting is key to any kind of loose-nit peoples sticking together. An ethnic people will not submit to being ruled by another ethnicity in an authoritarian manner(ie, hungarians ruled by ethnic german royalty), but if everyone in the country has a fair vote, i dont see why they would argue with the results.

For the most part, democracy and freedoms lead to tolorence. I think the main problem with Austria was that people did not feel equal. If everyone's vote counts the same, no matter if they are romanian or ethnic german, they can form a national unity that they can put ahead of their ethnic unity.

**Nowake** · 02-07-2005, 22:42

You are corect, but ethnic groups like romanians or poles, who were aware of being just a part of a greater nation (Romania was even a fully independent state after 1878, having shuk the last ties with the Ottomans after their involvement in the 1877 war) would always try to unite with the mother nation.

**Baiae** · 02-08-2005, 01:05

I think that the thirst for full independence would doom the Empire in the long run. Those European countries that held together at this time did so because of a shared language, something which the Austro-Hungarian Empire didn't have. It may have held to gether for some time, twenty/thirty years maybe, but certainly not until the present day.