Justification and Calls to Kill Americans

**IrishMike** · 01-31-2005, 01:44

Yes I know, I have seen this. As I said before I find it very disturbing, and I can not understand the reasons behind such thinking. After all we all are human beings, and are not all humans deserving of one anothers understanding, and compassion, no matter how different we are from another in times of peace.

**SwordsMaster** · 01-31-2005, 02:00

Originally Posted by ColdKnight

Yes I know, I have seen this. As I said before I find it very disturbing, and I can not understand the reasons behind such thinking. After all we all are human beings, and are not all humans deserving of one anothers understanding, and compassion, no matter how different we are from another in times of peace.

That is hippie

.

Seriously though. IIRC the conversation was about how the US "farmed" Bin Laden and how he turned back on them when they abandoned him. They did deserve it from that point of view. I´m not justifying the loss of lives and the actual massacre, but the call to attention. The reminder of that all actions have consequences even if you are the US.

Don´t take me wrong, if you are offended, you are in your right to be so, and then the post should be removed, I´m just trying to show how it actually could make sense without being offensive.

Besides, shouldn´t that kind of threads belong to the Backroom?

**IrishMike** · 01-31-2005, 02:09

Didn't mean to sound hippy. Just saying all this terrorism crap is uncalled for in peace. Now in war its a different story, as I have been a fan of the theory of total war. Pray for peace, but be ruthless in war.

The US is always going to be the major target aslong as we are the major mover and shaker in the world. Just like if the British Empire was still around, they would be the major target of critisim. I would just like others to be a little more sensitive in putting their thoughts into words, no need to stab a already sore wound.

**Devastatin Dave** · 01-31-2005, 02:50

Originally Posted by ColdKnight

I would just like others to be a little more sensitive in putting their thoughts into words, no need to stab a already sore wound.

I disagree, I prefer to know the true feelings of those who say such things. But at the same time, they should be as equaly punished as those that aren't anti-American, anti-capitalist, etc for such infractions. But, even if certain members of the mod and leftist members of this community don't recognize this blantant attacks, the same standards do not apply.

**Byzantine Prince** · 01-31-2005, 03:34

I don't think anyone ever said that the killing of innocent people was justified. I specifically wrote that the targeting of leaders and the people who made these mistakes would not be such a huge backlash. Let's face it this administration has failed in every way possible and listening to them talk about their dicisions oozes with incompetence. I think most of the world has realized this.

Also Americans need to stop acting as if every muslim country is filled uneducated barbarians that they wouldn't mind killing off. Their lives matter as much as yours. IF you kill 100,000 of them you shouldn't expect no backlash in return. If you support an invasive and outright terrorist state such as Israel (that controls the 3rd most important site in Islam) then you shouldn't expect no backlash. People all over the world have suffered greatly because of America's medling ways. How about asking the UN or NATO once in a while. Would that be so bad.

Here's a little count of all the people that were needlessly killed:

Germany: 1 million civilian dead even after the surrender. Reason: Negligence
Korea: 4 million Koreans died in 3 years(1950-1953). Reason: NONE
Vietnam: 3 million Viets dead Reason: NONE
Iraq: 100,000 and counting mostly civilian population dead in 2 years.

Oh yeah and this is not to mention all the poor Indians you wiped off the face of the Earth.

**PanzerJaeger** · 01-31-2005, 04:30

Your entire post was a justification for killing americans. In fact, you said we deserve another attack. You might not be able to comprehend it, but your hate filled words can and have translated into hatefilled actions abroad. People look for justification before they kill innocents because even they know its fundementally wrong, your kind of language gives murderers a moral highground.

I believe that if this kind of hate mongering is allowed, it will set a very bad precident. Sure no one cares if someone is talking about how good it was that evil empirialist americans were killed, but if thats ok whats to stop someone for justifying the killing of Christians or Jews...

**Devastatin Dave** · 01-31-2005, 04:41

Originally Posted by Byzantine_Prince

I don't think anyone ever said that the killing of innocent people was justified. I specifically wrote that the targeting of leaders and the people who made these mistakes would not be such a huge backlash. Let's face it this administration has failed in every way possible and listening to them talk about their dicisions oozes with incompetence. I think most of the world has realized this.

Also Americans need to stop acting as if every muslim country is filled uneducated barbarians that they wouldn't mind killing off. Their lives matter as much as yours. IF you kill 100,000 of them you shouldn't expect no backlash in return. If you support an invasive and outright terrorist state such as Israel (that controls the 3rd most important site in Islam) then you shouldn't expect no backlash. People all over the world have suffered greatly because of America's medling ways. How about asking the UN or NATO once in a while. Would that be so bad.

Here's a little count of all the people that were needlessly killed:

Germany: 1 million civilian dead even after the surrender. Reason: Negligence
Korea: 4 million Koreans died in 3 years(1950-1953). Reason: NONE
Vietnam: 3 million Viets dead Reason: NONE
Iraq: 100,000 and counting mostly civilian population dead in 2 years.

Oh yeah and this is not to mention all the poor Indians you wiped off the face of the Earth.

Keep your anti American hatred in the backroom where such behavior is allowed.

**JAG** · 01-31-2005, 05:19

I would have to totally and utterly agree with PJ here, those kinds of posts and remarks are totally unacceptable. How inconsiderate and disgusting it is to state that innocent people - yes innocent people died in the terrorist attacks, they are guilty of nothing for just being American citizens - deserved to die for doing their job and that more innocent people should die in the future. It is also clearly going to make people in the org very upset - rightly - if it is allowed to go on. It is wrong to label any group with hurtful messages, Americans, Muslims, liberals or conservatives, surely the people responsible shouldn't be able to say it. They would not be able to say it in our real life societies, why should they be able to say it on a message board?

Attacking a group of people with a message which if directed at an individual themselves would get them warnings, surely shouldn't be allowed. If you can't state you want an individual to die just because they are American on this board, why should you be able to state the same in a broader American context? Baffles me.

**Gregoshi** · 01-31-2005, 07:22

Since my actions "inspired" this particular topic, I'll make a few comments. But first, let me say that all actions taken on the thread in question were my decisions and are my responsibility alone. Second, to dispel a few comments made above, I am an American and a Republican, I was appalled by the events of 9/11 and I supported the war in Iraq. None of this trivia about me should matter, but apparently it does.

Originally Posted by PanzerJager

...especially via a forum that can be accessed all over the world.

Yes, there are people from all over the world who visit these forums. They have different cultural backgrounds, religions (or lack thereof), and ideologies. As a result, there are a lot of conflicting viewpoints on every topic under the sun. The only common bond we share is an interest in the Total War games - and we even have strong differences of opinion about that! To simplify the issue for sake of clarity, while some are offended by those justifying 3000 deaths in the 9/11 attacks, there are others equally outraged by the many civilian casualties inflicted by US forces in the Iraq war and any attempts to justify that war will be offensive to them. If we forbid posts justifying 9/11, then we should forbid posts justifying the Iraq war. I'll ask for no "but..." arguments about this example, the point of it is to illustrate differences in our points of view, not the details of the example.

The freedom of speech we Americans value so much is a double edged sword. It has an ugly side too (and "ugly" depends upon your perspective), but as long as it doesn't violate forum rules, it has to remain just "ugly" and not an infraction. Violating the forum rules in these instances is not so clear cut. Where does freedom of expression end and the "hateful" speech prohibition of the forum rules begin? Since 9/11, the US has been struggling with determining where the boundaries lie with issues such as the one we are discussing here. I used my best judgement in reading the thread and applying the forum rules. It was my judgement - period. Whether you see it as fortunate or unfortunate, that is what you get in the Monastery.

In contrast to the fuzzy, judgemental issue discussed above, the application of some forum rules can be crystal clear. Abuse is one that springs to mind in this particular instance. That they are a rules violation is quite apparent no matter which side of the issue you stand.