Hard-Coded Limits

[Nero]

I've now tried adding temples with Hadrian and by hand. Both times I get a CTD before the intro movie starts. Does the game read sizes of files before it starts or something like that?
(When I delete the added building, the game works again)

[eadingas]

If the game CTDs on startup splash-screen, 9 times out of 10 "-show_err" commandline option should give a cause of the crash.

[Nero]

nah i've tried it but i don't get a message.
Just a standard winxp message that the program has crashed and I can send a report to microsoft.

[eadingas]

hmm check the file lengths of edited and old files. If they are very different (more than just a number of characters you wrote), then you have saved it in a different encoding. RTW is very sensitive to that. Also, I assume you've properly edited the enum and text/export_building.txt files? Remember to add a 'xxx_name' section to these files.
But these bugs should be caught by -show_err... and there really is nothing in the engine that could prevent you from having multiple buildings called 'temple' in game, as long as they have all unique names in the code...

[Nero]

Thanks!!!

I've forgotten to make the enums and export_buildings.txt fit the export_descr_buildings.txt
Now I can work on my mod
The -show_err thingy didn't show a thing, except something about Locus Herulae, but that is RTR based.

[eadingas]

The -show_err only shows first bug it encounters, so if there was something else wrong in the files, you won't get the message. It is recommended to fix all the bugs as you move along, otherwise you won't get the necessary info :)

[Red Harvest]

Max limits for:

Primary attack = 63
Secondary attack = 63
Primary Charge bonus = 63
Secondary Charge bonus = Unknown, but most likely, 63.

Armour = 63
Def. Skill = 63
Shield = 31

These were all checked by putting values of 99 in for each in the game. I then checked against the stats listed in the unit card inside a custom battle. The files load fine with higher values (I didn't try exceeding 99) but the values actually received in game are lower, topping out at 63 for all but the shield, which has 1/2 the ceiling. Most likely the game sees a valid range of 0 through 63 = 64 discrete chunks. For shields it is 0 through 31 for 32 discrete chunks.

I also retested missile ammo with show error set. 1 is indeed below the minimum value of 2 as stated in the error message box (I had guessed as much before.) Zero worked, but resulted in the unit actually not having a missile weapon. I have not established max ammo. 99 was a valid entry, but I couldn't tell if it actually yielded 99 rounds, or perhaps a lesser number. It was clearly a butt load of ammo when I tested it with pila...

[Epistolary Richard]

64 is also the upper limit for hidden resources. Is there some significance to this number?

[Simetrical]

Yes. It's equal to six bits. This would be the equivalent of, say, the IRS only putting eight boxes in a form where you list your income, so anyone making more than $999,999.99 wouldn't be able to use the form correctly. The game allots six bits for remembering attack, so anything over 111111 (or 63 in decimal) is ignored. The most common values are 255/256 (eight bits) and 65,535/65,536 (sixteen bits), because those divide evenly into bytes (one byte = eight bits).

(Side note: some programs loop values instead of capping them, so that a value of 64 would translate to 1000000, which would be truncated to six bits—000000. Needless to say, not a good design feature. This was really annoying in Wizardry 8, where my uber-cleric with good magic resistance suddenly got pummeled by enemy spells when I cast a shielding spell, which raised his magic defense over 255.)

These were all checked by putting values of 99 in for each in the game. I then checked against the stats listed in the unit card inside a custom battle.

So it's not for sure—the unit card could be truncating it while the game doesn't. Still, good enough.

Edit: I almost forgot to ask. Epistolary Richard, what happens with more than 64 hidden resources?

-Simetrical

[Red Harvest]

Simetrical,

I'm sure. I've tried falxmen with 63 attack and 63 armour vs. other falxmen with 99 attack, 99 armour. It is even. I then tried 43 attack and 43 armour vs. 63 attack and 63 armour. The 63 side won easily, suffering no losses.

I was reasonably sure of this already, because the combat bar indicated even with 63 vs. 99. 63 vs. 43 showed an appropriate ratio.

In addition, when viewing the stats during unit selection (pre-battle) the totals are correct.

[lt1956]

Anyone find the max on morale? 63 or 99? I put 99 for spartans but that doesnt mean a thing. lol

What about bonuses for Woods etc also 63? And what about trerrain moddifiers for movement?

Lt

[Epistolary Richard]

Aha! There is method to the madness.

If this upper-limit is carried across to other unit stats, it'll help when it comes to those that are harder to test for (such as unit mass).

Edit: I almost forgot to ask. Epistolary Richard, what happens with more than 64 hidden resources?

CTD on start-up. Make testing a lot quicker.

[Epistolary Richard]

Mass works up to 100 at least (Oliphant). I have used 99 before in my own tests. Haven't tried higher.

Where is the mass for the oliphant listed? Export_descr_unit only lists the riders' mass...

Edit: descr_mount.txt, ta muchly RH.

[The Stranger]

If the game CTDs on startup splash-screen, 9 times out of 10 "-show_err" commandline option should give a cause of the crash.

i've never got a reason for a CTD after some modding

[The Stranger]

Anyone find the max on morale? 63 or 99? I put 99 for spartans but that doesnt mean a thing. lol

What about bonuses for Woods etc also 63? And what about trerrain moddifiers for movement?

Lt

do to much and your morale is negative just as with money modding.

[Simetrical]

Nope. Apparently stats don't wrap in RTW (unlike, as you correctly note, money).

-Simetrical

[pwijnands]

The minimum range for javelins is 20, anything lower will crash the game.

[we51ey2]

is there a limit on the amount of buildings aloud

[Laridus Konivaich]

I have been working on a new campaing map which stretches from Western Turkey to Southern Italy, and I have not seen anything which indicates a 20 landmass limit. There are four major landmasses: Italy, Sicily, Greece, Turkey; and about fifty acessable islands in the Aegean and I have had no problems with loading/playing the game. I have not, however, tested the map for AI strategy yet, since it is not finished.

~Laridus Konivaich

[stichmaster1]

maybe the 20 landmass limit means 20 landmasses WITH CITIES, just an idea

[eadingas]

IIRC, the 20 landmass limit is not of the 'crashing' types, just like 50 pixel distance limit between cities. It can screw the AI, though. We've noticed that AI on our map has some trouble with landing on islands, and we're wondering if that's not the reason...

[Epistolary Richard]

Joyfully pointless nugget of information here. No matter how many units you allocate to a faction in export_desc_unit, the 'Choose Your Army' display before custom battles will only display the first 100. The others are still there (the computer can pick them) but they won't display.

I will make a sportsman's bet that this is the most worthless limit to be discovered thus far!

[Tux]

I've found another limit during some work on the campaign map models, the limit is 20000 faces per model on the campagin map, if it has more the game will ctd. This might be usefull for some who may wanna work on the campagin map models to change them.

[Simetrical]

By faces, do you mean polygons (in the computer graphics sense)?

-Simetrical

[Tux]

No i mean faces, every type of triangles.

[Simetrical]

In math, you call them faces. In computer graphics design, you call them polygons, or polys for short (and there they're represented as triangles, generally). A 200,000-poly model is what, in mathematics, would be classified as a polyhedron with 200,000 faces (all triangular).

-Simetrical

[Tux]

No you call them faces, go a little in max and see for yourself, they are formated by 3 point wich for a face, this is how i work in max and how it is talked.

So if i have a plane wich is formed by 4 coplanar points it will have 2 faces and not 1 poly, but if you wish to call them polys.

[Simetrical]

Well, okay. Whichever.

-Simetrical

[Nero]

I've probably found a limit to the number of buildings in export_descr_buildings.txt

It is somewhere around 272 - then I got CTDs when trying to open the buildings menu in the game.

Could anyone verify this?

[eadingas]

256, probably...