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Thread: Hard-Coded Limits

  1. #31
    Member Member Nero's Avatar
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    Question Re: Hard-Coded Limits

    I've now tried adding temples with Hadrian and by hand. Both times I get a CTD before the intro movie starts. Does the game read sizes of files before it starts or something like that?
    (When I delete the added building, the game works again)

  2. #32
    Wandering Historian Member eadingas's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hard-Coded Limits

    If the game CTDs on startup splash-screen, 9 times out of 10 "-show_err" commandline option should give a cause of the crash.
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  3. #33
    Member Member Nero's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hard-Coded Limits

    nah i've tried it but i don't get a message.
    Just a standard winxp message that the program has crashed and I can send a report to microsoft.

  4. #34
    Wandering Historian Member eadingas's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hard-Coded Limits

    hmm check the file lengths of edited and old files. If they are very different (more than just a number of characters you wrote), then you have saved it in a different encoding. RTW is very sensitive to that. Also, I assume you've properly edited the enum and text/export_building.txt files? Remember to add a 'xxx_name' section to these files.
    But these bugs should be caught by -show_err... and there really is nothing in the engine that could prevent you from having multiple buildings called 'temple' in game, as long as they have all unique names in the code...
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  5. #35
    Member Member Nero's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hard-Coded Limits

    Thanks!!!

    I've forgotten to make the enums and export_buildings.txt fit the export_descr_buildings.txt
    Now I can work on my mod
    The -show_err thingy didn't show a thing, except something about Locus Herulae, but that is RTR based.

  6. #36
    Wandering Historian Member eadingas's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hard-Coded Limits

    The -show_err only shows first bug it encounters, so if there was something else wrong in the files, you won't get the message. It is recommended to fix all the bugs as you move along, otherwise you won't get the necessary info :)
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  7. #37
    Alienated Senior Member Member Red Harvest's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hard-Coded Limits

    Max limits for:

    Primary attack = 63
    Secondary attack = 63
    Primary Charge bonus = 63
    Secondary Charge bonus = Unknown, but most likely, 63.

    Armour = 63
    Def. Skill = 63
    Shield = 31

    These were all checked by putting values of 99 in for each in the game. I then checked against the stats listed in the unit card inside a custom battle. The files load fine with higher values (I didn't try exceeding 99) but the values actually received in game are lower, topping out at 63 for all but the shield, which has 1/2 the ceiling. Most likely the game sees a valid range of 0 through 63 = 64 discrete chunks. For shields it is 0 through 31 for 32 discrete chunks.

    I also retested missile ammo with show error set. 1 is indeed below the minimum value of 2 as stated in the error message box (I had guessed as much before.) Zero worked, but resulted in the unit actually not having a missile weapon. I have not established max ammo. 99 was a valid entry, but I couldn't tell if it actually yielded 99 rounds, or perhaps a lesser number. It was clearly a butt load of ammo when I tested it with pila...
    Rome Total War, it's not a game, it's a do-it-yourself project.

  8. #38

    Default Re: Hard-Coded Limits

    64 is also the upper limit for hidden resources. Is there some significance to this number?
    Epistolary Richard's modding Rules of Cool
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  9. #39
    Spends his time on TWC Member Simetrical's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hard-Coded Limits

    Yes. It's equal to six bits. This would be the equivalent of, say, the IRS only putting eight boxes in a form where you list your income, so anyone making more than $999,999.99 wouldn't be able to use the form correctly. The game allots six bits for remembering attack, so anything over 111111 (or 63 in decimal) is ignored. The most common values are 255/256 (eight bits) and 65,535/65,536 (sixteen bits), because those divide evenly into bytes (one byte = eight bits).

    (Side note: some programs loop values instead of capping them, so that a value of 64 would translate to 1000000, which would be truncated to six bits—000000. Needless to say, not a good design feature. This was really annoying in Wizardry 8, where my uber-cleric with good magic resistance suddenly got pummeled by enemy spells when I cast a shielding spell, which raised his magic defense over 255.)
    Quote Originally Posted by Red Harvest
    These were all checked by putting values of 99 in for each in the game. I then checked against the stats listed in the unit card inside a custom battle.
    So it's not for sure—the unit card could be truncating it while the game doesn't. Still, good enough.

    Edit: I almost forgot to ask. Epistolary Richard, what happens with more than 64 hidden resources?

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    Last edited by Simetrical; 02-28-2005 at 03:59.
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  10. #40
    Alienated Senior Member Member Red Harvest's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hard-Coded Limits

    Simetrical,

    I'm sure. I've tried falxmen with 63 attack and 63 armour vs. other falxmen with 99 attack, 99 armour. It is even. I then tried 43 attack and 43 armour vs. 63 attack and 63 armour. The 63 side won easily, suffering no losses.

    I was reasonably sure of this already, because the combat bar indicated even with 63 vs. 99. 63 vs. 43 showed an appropriate ratio.

    In addition, when viewing the stats during unit selection (pre-battle) the totals are correct.
    Rome Total War, it's not a game, it's a do-it-yourself project.

  11. #41

    Default Re: Hard-Coded Limits

    Anyone find the max on morale? 63 or 99? I put 99 for spartans but that doesnt mean a thing. lol

    What about bonuses for Woods etc also 63? And what about trerrain moddifiers for movement?

    Lt
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  12. #42

    Default Re: Hard-Coded Limits

    Aha! There is method to the madness.

    If this upper-limit is carried across to other unit stats, it'll help when it comes to those that are harder to test for (such as unit mass).

    Quote Originally Posted by Simetrical
    Edit: I almost forgot to ask. Epistolary Richard, what happens with more than 64 hidden resources?
    CTD on start-up. Make testing a lot quicker.
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  13. #43

    Default Re: Hard-Coded Limits

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Harvest
    Mass works up to 100 at least (Oliphant). I have used 99 before in my own tests. Haven't tried higher.
    Where is the mass for the oliphant listed? Export_descr_unit only lists the riders' mass...

    Edit: descr_mount.txt, ta muchly RH.
    Last edited by Epistolary Richard; 03-02-2005 at 19:29. Reason: answered
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  14. #44
    One of the Undutchables Member The Stranger's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hard-Coded Limits

    Quote Originally Posted by eadingas
    If the game CTDs on startup splash-screen, 9 times out of 10 "-show_err" commandline option should give a cause of the crash.
    i've never got a reason for a CTD after some modding

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  15. #45
    One of the Undutchables Member The Stranger's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hard-Coded Limits

    Quote Originally Posted by lt1956
    Anyone find the max on morale? 63 or 99? I put 99 for spartans but that doesnt mean a thing. lol

    What about bonuses for Woods etc also 63? And what about trerrain moddifiers for movement?

    Lt
    do to much and your morale is negative just as with money modding.

    We do not sow.

  16. #46
    Spends his time on TWC Member Simetrical's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hard-Coded Limits

    Nope. Apparently stats don't wrap in RTW (unlike, as you correctly note, money).

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  17. #47

    Default Re: Hard-Coded Limits

    The minimum range for javelins is 20, anything lower will crash the game.

  18. #48

    Default Re: Hard-Coded Limits

    is there a limit on the amount of buildings aloud

  19. #49
    Eliminated Faction Heir Member Laridus Konivaich's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hard-Coded Limits

    I have been working on a new campaing map which stretches from Western Turkey to Southern Italy, and I have not seen anything which indicates a 20 landmass limit. There are four major landmasses: Italy, Sicily, Greece, Turkey; and about fifty acessable islands in the Aegean and I have had no problems with loading/playing the game. I have not, however, tested the map for AI strategy yet, since it is not finished.

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  20. #50

    Default Re: Hard-Coded Limits

    maybe the 20 landmass limit means 20 landmasses WITH CITIES, just an idea

  21. #51
    Wandering Historian Member eadingas's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hard-Coded Limits

    IIRC, the 20 landmass limit is not of the 'crashing' types, just like 50 pixel distance limit between cities. It can screw the AI, though. We've noticed that AI on our map has some trouble with landing on islands, and we're wondering if that's not the reason...
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  22. #52

    Default Re: Hard-Coded Limits

    Joyfully pointless nugget of information here. No matter how many units you allocate to a faction in export_desc_unit, the 'Choose Your Army' display before custom battles will only display the first 100. The others are still there (the computer can pick them) but they won't display.

    I will make a sportsman's bet that this is the most worthless limit to be discovered thus far!
    Epistolary Richard's modding Rules of Cool
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  23. #53
    Bored Member Tux's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hard-Coded Limits

    I've found another limit during some work on the campaign map models, the limit is 20000 faces per model on the campagin map, if it has more the game will ctd. This might be usefull for some who may wanna work on the campagin map models to change them.

  24. #54
    Spends his time on TWC Member Simetrical's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hard-Coded Limits

    By faces, do you mean polygons (in the computer graphics sense)?

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  25. #55
    Bored Member Tux's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hard-Coded Limits

    No i mean faces, every type of triangles.

  26. #56
    Spends his time on TWC Member Simetrical's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hard-Coded Limits

    In math, you call them faces. In computer graphics design, you call them polygons, or polys for short (and there they're represented as triangles, generally). A 200,000-poly model is what, in mathematics, would be classified as a polyhedron with 200,000 faces (all triangular).

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  27. #57
    Bored Member Tux's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hard-Coded Limits

    No you call them faces, go a little in max and see for yourself, they are formated by 3 point wich for a face, this is how i work in max and how it is talked.

    So if i have a plane wich is formed by 4 coplanar points it will have 2 faces and not 1 poly, but if you wish to call them polys.

  28. #58
    Spends his time on TWC Member Simetrical's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hard-Coded Limits

    Well, okay. Whichever.

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  29. #59
    Member Member Nero's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hard-Coded Limits

    I've probably found a limit to the number of buildings in export_descr_buildings.txt

    It is somewhere around 272 - then I got CTDs when trying to open the buildings menu in the game.

    Could anyone verify this?

  30. #60
    Wandering Historian Member eadingas's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hard-Coded Limits

    256, probably...
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