Monastery/history forum

[TosaInu]

Hello,

The description reads: A discussion forum linked to the historical periods depicted in the Total War games series.

Yet other eras get covarage too. This is fine with me, but some history is pretty recent and the disussion gets too emotional. Which date should be the upper limit? 1945, 1900, 1850, 1800?

[Demon of Light]

There does seem to be a point that divides events of the past between Current Affairs and History. That point often seems to be the immediacy with which we regard whichever specific event we are attempting to divide. Before today, I would have said 1945. However, since certain events that led to the end of WWII seem to be have become relevant with respect to who has the gall to post on what subjects given a stated opinion on this period of the past, it seems that WWII is too immediate for some to approach with detachment (or from the other side, stated opinions on WWII are too relevant with respect to certain current affairs to be ignored). I might suggest the end of the first World War as an upper limit for discussion. Unless I'm mistaken, this is the furthest we can go in the past while having the reasonable expectaion of everyone being able to approach it with a suitable level of detachment.

[monkian]

Why quibble with dates- its just semantics.

History is History.

Just because some subjects may be taboo to some certain individuals who post here doesn't mean that everyone should be restricted from discussing them.

Whatever happened to 'a Historian has no country'

[Gregoshi]

I have to generally agree with DoL on his assessment. World War II, as interesting a topic as it is, is just too emotionally charge, even in today's world. The end of WWI or even 1900 would be a good cut off limit.

Edit: monkian, unfortunately, not all who read and post in the Monastery are historians.

[Kaiser of Arabia]

How about anything before the fall of the USSR?

[Accounting Troll]

Even the end of WWI is probably too recent because it is widely seen as one of the causes of WWII, so discussion of the one tends to lead to discussion of the other.

I don't think you can completely eliminate the risk whatever date you go for - the European and American treatment of the native Americans from the 16th-19th centuries is still a highly emotive subject.

[monkian]

I have to generally agree with DoL on his assessment. World War II, as interesting a topic as it is, is just too emotionally charge, even in today's world. The end of WWI or even 1900 would be a good cut off limit.

Edit: monkian, unfortunately, not all who read and post in the Monastery are historians.

But we have the Backroom for political and 'lively' discussions.

The recent topics that were brought up in the Monastery should've been moved to the Backroom.

I think banning a very interesting period of modern History i.e the whole of the 20th Century is a little drastic because of a few people.

How are people suposed to learn of other people's views or what actually happened in that century i.e The Hollacaust when we are banned from talking about them ?

[The_Emperor]

How about anything before the fall of the USSR?

I would agree with that statement. The Cold War is certainly now part of history. It is over and much information about its events have come to light over the past decade.

[conon394]

I not sure a year limit is really going to be helpful.

I mean almost any thread anywhere on the net involving Alexander seems to be turned into a battlefield for the Greece vs. Macedonia (FYR) debate (or perhaps virtual war is a better description).

But I'd suggest 1900. Avoid anyone’s living memory or that of their near relatives.

[Devastatin Dave]

I think that everyone is getting too P.C. about this. The topic could have just simply been moved to the backroom. I think what BP said did cross the line but thats what mods are for (riiiiight). Anyway, every point in history has something to offend every culture, religion, or race. I say, if the discussion gets political or emotional, then it gets moved. There were many incredible things that have happened just in the past week that could be historical. So lets just try to keep things in the right place. Just allow me to continue to break the rules from time to time since I'll be banned forever in the backroom anyhow.... BTW....boobies...

[IrishMike]

I don't believe a time limit is nessasary. I think that history is not the problem, its the way the person's view of history are put into words. For example: Kill em all they deserve every last bit they get, the same thought could be posted like, I believe their previous actions might have adgetated or possible warrented this response, That latter way would come with much less trouble, and would offend a whole lot less. It is a simple of matter of wording, not topics.

[Devastatin Dave]

Excellent point ColdKnight!!!

[Productivity]

I'm not sure that a year limit would help, rather make rules to make sure that it does not get out of hand and enforce them.

Basically if someone can't handle a (justified) attack on their country (in the monastery this is), then basically they shouldn't be in there, and if they keep coming in there and creating problems then start using warnings.

To be honest the thread re. Sept 11th which started this, while insensitively worded, wasn't particularly out of order. If you can't hand a criticism of your contries policies, and the results that arise out of said policies then a rational discussion forum is no place for you.

[Mouzafphaerre]

-
I tend to agree with monkian and conon. Furthermore, I believe that some peple are intentionally polluting the Monastry and the Frontroom, maybe because they can't do what they want to in the Backroom or else.

Moderators shuld watch the threads and move them immediately whenever history is lost and politics comes to the front line. Other patrons shuld also use the bad post reporting mechanisme to assist the moderators. Actually, Gregoshi is already doing a top quality job in there.

There have been fruitful discussions regarding WWII in the monastry, maybe heated at times but not flamed. As we have patrons who attempt to trace their family history back until imperial Roman times or Hellenistic era, no historical period will survive the risk of being emotional for one or another. (I can't forget the baseless bedtime story related offence charged against the Ottoman Empire in the Backroom by an assistant moderator, which caused me permanently leave the said board, for example.)

My words, for what they are worth.
-

[PanzerJaeger]

There is no need for a time barrier! All we need is some respect and a little descretion.

What was said that prompted this thread was very unusual to the backroom. I believe you misunderstand my, and some others, complaints about that thread.

I dont care if you discuss terrorism, 9/11, or how bad american foreign policy is in your opinion, just show a little respect. (oh and dont call for more attacks )

Just as one would deal with the holocaust or slavery or any event where people were unjustly hurt and killed, basic respect is all im asking for.

The post was the exception, not the standard, to what is generally found in the monestary. There were 100 different ways for the posters to express their disagreements with america and her foriegn policy that did not include telling americans they deserved it and it should happen again.

Again, i believe everyone is mature enough to discuss any historical event in the monestary. The only reason i brought it up at all was because it was so out of tune with the usual, objective, informative posts that can usually be found there. Just as we show basic respect for people by not cursing or personally attacking them(which i sadly lacked in the same thread), reasonably intelligent people should be able to form their thesises in decent manner.


Common sense dictates that a person should use a little descretion when posting about such recent and emotional events. Thats all im asking...

[nokhor]

i add my two cents to the 'don't restrict the timeline of the monastery' crowd. if a topic becomes too heated, close it, delete it or move it but the monastery should not be be restricted in eras.

[Adrian II]

I think that history is not the problem, its the way the person's view of history are put into words.

Excellent point. Recently there was a rather fierce discussion of Alexander the Great that had all sorts of present-day ramifications with regard to homosexuality, Greek and Macedonian identity, ethnic historiography, etcetera. It's impossible to separate the past from the present. But it is quite possible to force members to observe civilised discourse.

I would favour the latter.

[Big King Sanctaphrax]

No, don't restrict the timeline.

As far as I'm concerned, the thread in question just showed that the system we have in place works-it was closed extremely quickly. The problem is not with the Monastary's remit, but with people posting threads in there which belong to the backroom, and making extremely offensive posts. This was dealt with, so I don't see the problem.

I would also like it to be noted that the majority of posters in the thread actually condemned it's premise. Another reason I do not think that we have a problem.

[SwordsMaster]

I´m also supporting the crowd that want no restrictions. I´m all for criticism. If you can´t handle it, stay out of it.

I also concur with theopinion that heated topics should be just locked/deleted.

[KukriKhan]

So the prevailing expressed opinion, then, is that the current description:

A discussion forum linked to the historical periods depicted in the Total War games series.

should be changed? That description seems to (currently) limit discussion to events up to circa 1600 CE. Please suggest different descriptions.

For example:
A discussion forum of history, based on events depicted in the Total War games series.

edit: or is tying that forum to TW games no longer desired?

[nokhor]

i think of the monastery as a historical forum consisiting of total war gamers as opposed to a total war games historical forum. if that makes much sense, i know it confused me as i was writing it.

[Gregoshi]

The concensus between this thread and a parallel thread in the Monastery is that the description of the Monastery forum should change to one of a general history forum with no cut-off date defining what constitutes "history".


FYI: The above mentioned thread has been moved to this forum. You can find it here: The Monastery forum going off-track?