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Thread: Initial Patch Thoughts

  1. #121

    Default Re: Initial Patch Thoughts

    Just downloaded and installed the patch but am too busy at the moment to restart a new campaign. :(
    Will be going back in a day or two for holidays and my old home computer can't install R:TW. :sigh:

    I've been following the discussion though and that bit about horse archers not firing properly doesn't look good. Also read that the exploit of giving away your province as a gift and taking it back immediately is still very much possible.

    Would like to have a general consensus on cavalry as well. Been reading odd reports on the official boards that cavalry can attempt a frontal charge and still beat phalanxes. So are they still overpowered? More overpowered than before the patch? Or are they now Ok?

    AI was a big issue pre patch. CA only mentioned that generals would be less suicidal. I didn't really see anything else pertaining to the AI. Come to think of it, on a brief perusal of the readme, it's appears to be exactly the same as the one posted earlier by Shogun. I was hoping for more details, but oh well... I suppose we'll have to work out the rest for ourselves.

  2. #122
    Back in black Member monkian's Avatar
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    Default Re: Initial Patch Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by CBR
    monkian:

    Try and delete the file and then run Rome again. It should make a new pref file with all the new lines in. If not you can add them but try deleting it first.


    hoom:

    The buttons at top can be made to stay: just hit F6 once when deployment/battle starts.


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  3. #123
    Cellular Microbiologist Member SpencerH's Avatar
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    Default Re: Initial Patch Thoughts

    Two quick comments since I havent played yet (see number 2).

    1. I loaded a 1.0 campaign (that I hadnt bothered to finish) took a quick look at the finances then loaded 1.2 and looked again. My net cash in a brutii empire covering most of the map except iberia, africa, and some of the ME had dropped from ~29000 to ~12000. I assume its some change to the squalor calcs.

    2. I'm definitely pissed-off by the reports that HA are now virtually useless. What other bugs will we run into 50-100 hours into a game? I dont have that much free time and I'm not willing to 'beta test' any more games. If a game or patch isnt ready then dont sell/publish it. Dont waste my time. I will NOT BUY an expansion till this version leaves beta and I will try to convince as many people as I can to do the same. Its the only lever we can use in order to get the quality product we deserve.
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    We need MP games without the oversimplifications required for 'good' AI.

  4. #124
    Alienated Senior Member Member Red Harvest's Avatar
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    Default Re: Initial Patch Thoughts

    The HA's aren't useless, but they are hampered quite a bit. They can't cause any casualties when withdrawing in skirmish in campaign. The AI cav are all over them now without taking any casualties in the pursuit. So I'm having to use them as light cav who happen to have bows.
    Rome Total War, it's not a game, it's a do-it-yourself project.

  5. #125
    Ashigaru Member Vlad Tzepes's Avatar
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    Default Re: Initial Patch Thoughts

    Talking 'bout first thoughts: the game now seems to be better, closer to what I first expected. Still, the AI seems to be inferior to MTW (even though now, with 1.2, there are some hopes).

    Strange thing happened yesterday, while assaulting, as Chartage, a Roman settlement. Some infantry climbing the walls with ladders. The first men reach the top and, as usual, I order them to run towards the closest tower. It worked smoothly until now, in 1.0, but now all the guys still on the ladder threw themselves over, yelling as they crush on the ground. wow that was cool, half the unit gone in 1 second. Never seen that before.
    "Whose motorcycle is this?", "It's a chopper, baby.", "Whose chopper is this?", "Zed's.", "Who's Zed?", "Zed's dead baby. Zed's dead." - Butch and Fabienne ride off into the sunset in Pulp Fiction.

  6. #126
    Member Member R3dD0g's Avatar
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    Default Re: Initial Patch Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Bartman
    Left click on the Cities tab to get a list of all your cities.
    Right click on the heading "Public Order" twice.
    That will sort the cities by Public Order, starting with the lowest.
    Thanks, I'll try that.

    Does the same type of thing work for the armies & agents? That would be sweet.
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  7. #127
    One of the Undutchables Member The Stranger's Avatar
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    Default Re: Initial Patch Thoughts

    you cant say ai is inferior cause in mtw they just massed armies in one army and let all of their borders unprotected oke all those small captain led armies arent much of an threat but what about those mass peasant armies in mtw while they could already build elite units int rtw they start building them and abandon those weak units as fast as possible

    We do not sow.

  8. #128
    Ashigaru Member Vlad Tzepes's Avatar
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    Default Re: Initial Patch Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Emperor Umeu 1
    you cant say ai is inferior cause in mtw they just massed armies in one army
    well yes this is true but still in MTW enemy armies were a threat, that was challenging.

    Sorry, that was off topic, I know. Hail the Patch, to get back
    "Whose motorcycle is this?", "It's a chopper, baby.", "Whose chopper is this?", "Zed's.", "Who's Zed?", "Zed's dead baby. Zed's dead." - Butch and Fabienne ride off into the sunset in Pulp Fiction.

  9. #129

    Default Re: Initial Patch Thoughts

    Is it just me, or is the squalor bug still there ;/. My capital has roughly - 10000000000000000000% to public order due to squalor, and i really don't feel like exterminating the population and starting over.

  10. #130
    Ricardus Insanusaum Member Bob the Insane's Avatar
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    Default Re: Initial Patch Thoughts

    I few little tests with peasants in the custom battles I think is revealing...

    Given their A1 and D1 stats any changes should be a little more dramatic for them... Testing Roman vs Roman peasants on VH shows no real difference in the kill rates between the two units. They appear to lose man at about the same rate as each other... But morale is different, the AI unit is must be simply getting a morale boost as in the few tests I ran even when my guys where winning (i.e. kill ratio was in our favour) our morale was always worse...

    My guys would hover between shaken and wavering, where as the AI would stay between steady and shaken until my guys eventually broke...

    It will be interesting to know if the AI acts more tactically on hard or very hard compared to medium...

  11. #131
    Rout Meister Member KyodaiSteeleye's Avatar
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    Default Re: Initial Patch Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Emperor Umeu 1
    you cant say ai is inferior cause in mtw they just massed armies in one army and let all of their borders unprotected oke all those small captain led armies arent much of an threat but what about those mass peasant armies in mtw while they could already build elite units int rtw they start building them and abandon those weak units as fast as possible
    Puncuation would have made your post a little easier to read emperor.
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  12. #132
    Swarthylicious Member Spino's Avatar
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    Default Re: Initial Patch Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Emperor Umeu 1
    you cant say ai is inferior cause in mtw they just massed armies in one army and let all of their borders unprotected oke all those small captain led armies arent much of an threat but what about those mass peasant armies in mtw while they could already build elite units int rtw they start building them and abandon those weak units as fast as possible
    Yes but in MTW modders had the ability to change the AI build priorities for specific units and buildings, thus eliminating the chance that those stacks of peasants and/or worthless units would ever be built. Those mass peasant armies were turned into well balanced stacks thanks to careful modding and as a result the AI would put up a much better fight. Unfortunately in RTW build probabilities for specific units or buildings are now hard coded and we can't anything about it.

    So while RTW's strategic AI may be better than MTW's in some ways it is still weaker in others.
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  13. #133

    Default Re: Initial Patch Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by monkian
    Theres no line in my preferences.txt to minimise the GUI
    I have patched the vanilla version of the game from 1.1 to 1.2
    Has anybody else had this or is there a line I could add myself ?
    Cheers
    MINIMAL_UI:TRUE

    Add that to the pre file

    I love that they have added this... But I wish i could carry on my British campaign.. is there a way to unlock at the fractions yet with 1.2 ??

    Great looking game...


  14. #134
    Ricardus Insanusaum Member Bob the Insane's Avatar
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    Default Re: Initial Patch Thoughts

    I take back what I said before about VH... Further "peasant tests" have shown the following I think...

    Medium is evens. Both unit lose men at the same rate, random chance which on loses.

    Hard is slight morale boost to the AI. Again losing men at the same rate, but the player's morale state is always worse right from the start of the fight)

    Very Hard is morale boost to AI, morale penalty to player and slight combat boost to AI (attack and/or defense unknows). Player loses men faster than the AI (in fact AI hardly loses any men so I suspect the combat boost is to the defense value), AI's morale does not drop below eager while the players morale drops immedately to shaken and then quickly to wavering and to broken...

    Now if the AI uses enhanced tactics under Hard (as compared to medium) I think it will be my new chosen battle difficulty... As the player you will be under the pressure of knowing that in a equal battle victory is dependant on you, but you don't have to deal with unbreakable, supermen AI soldiers...

  15. #135

    Default Re: Initial Patch Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Locklear
    One thing I've noticed is that the scarred trait is MUCH easier to get now. All of my generals, if they do ANY fighting, become scarred, it's bizarre (but not bad, I guess).
    They don't even have to do any fighting. One of my generals got the "scarred" trait after two battles, in neither of which his unit was commited to the fray.

    Not only that, but one of my administrative generals has also recently picked up the "scarred" trait, and he's spent the whole game sitting in my home province of Croton. I'm pretty sure he hasn't fought in a single battle (although I do recall fighting a battle with two or three units against a rebel army in that province early in the game).

  16. #136

    Default Re: Initial Patch Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Colovion
    Enemy STILL doesn't have Generals in their big stacks! ...I have so far fought 3 full stacks of Gauls invading into the Italian Penninsula that were leaderless! This wouldn't be such a bad thing if my spies hadn't noticed that there are settlements and stacks of units with simply the General and maybe one or two other units. This is unacceptable, I thought it was one of the main things on the list...

    >:(
    I don't necessarily see this as a problem Colovion. After all, generals do not necessarily add much to a stack unless they have stars. On the other hand, settlements get bonuses for having administrators. So I see nothing wrong with the AI choosing to put its generals into admin rather than combat.

    What is really wrong is seeing generals wandering around by themselves, neither governing a province nor commanding a decent army. I haven't seen that in 1.2 so far.

  17. #137
    Member Member soibean's Avatar
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    Default Re: Initial Patch Thoughts

    Ive pretty much enjoyed the patch...
    I enjoy how the computer has actually blockaded my ports when Im at war with them and not just randomly to break an alliance and then sail away, the AI is slightly better... although I had a general come in as a reinforcement and suicide himself against 2 units of British Warbands
    Its nice to see storms but wasnt there a mud slide disaster too? I thought I saw that once on my old game, and aren't there anymore earthquakes in the world?
    All in all I think its a good patch

  18. #138

    Default Re: Initial Patch Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Colovion
    The Computer on the Strat map seems to be much more intelligent as in knowing when you're outclassed by other factions; they go and find allies to repell invaders etc. Such as when the Brutii usually walk all over Greek Cities - this time those Greeks allied with the Macedonians and now the Brutii have been steadily halted in expanding that way - they've had to head a little north and are now pestered by the Gauls and Dacia while Greece and Macedon build up their strength (Greece also found and allied with Egypt).
    I don't know about that. In my latest campaign as the Bruti I KO'd both Greece and Macedonia very early in the game, in spite of the fact they both declared war on me at the same time. By turn 24 I was already by far the largest faction, and this bothers me, because it just seemed too easy. I think that when your faction (or maybe any faction) becomes the front runner, all the other factions you share a border with should make an alliance and declare war on you. And they should continue to make war on you until you've been at least been beaten back to average size. After all, any faction that starts to outpace the others is ultimately the major threat to every faction.

    BTW I'm currently playing on H/VH (campaign/battle) so possibly a VH campaign would be harder, but judging by the ease with which I win battles on VH, I doubt it would be that much more challenging.

  19. #139

    Default Re: Initial Patch Thoughts

    Okay I've been playing 1.2 for a while now and I thought I'd post about my biggest disappointment in this game, which was the same in 1.0, and that is the extraordinary lack of control of your units in battle.

    First of all there is the problem with charging. When I charge with a unit, whether it is a cav unit or infantry, the unit will immediately break ranks and charge willy-nilly into the fray in two's and three's. They then often seem to end up all packed tightly into a little bunch while the enemy unit envelops their flanks.

    What I find particularly annoying about this is that I'm playing as the Romans, and Romans were renowned for nothing if not the tight discipline and training of their troops. *That* should be the Roman edge - and yet Roman legionaires behave exactly like MTW peasants when charging. I really hate the way units don't stay in formation in RTW.

    Another problem appears to be that the pathfinding is still broken in cities. I recently had a battle against a greek city, broke down the gates and there was an enemy phalanx waiting at the crossroads. I ordered a unit of hastati to run in the gate to the side on the grass, so what did they do? Ran straight into the pointy sticks and immolated themselves. Finally managed to extract them by clicking on the road, and what did they do? Tore off at a frantic pace up the road and refused to respond to any orders to stop. And no, they weren't broken.

    So then I ordered a unit of cav to run through the gates and wheel left onto the grass, but of course they too had to immolate themselves against the phalanx at the crossroads first.

    Later on, I was having a battle on the town square, I was meleeing a phalanx with hastati and maneouvred a cav unit directly behind the phalanx to deliver the coup de gras. Ordered the the cav to attack and what did they do? Oh well it would have been just too easy to charge straight into the rear of the enemy phalanx, so they went for a 360 degree romp around the rear of my hastati unit(!) then came back to the same place they began, at which time they started attacking. By this time my hastati has broken.

    This lack of unit control is just so annoying, it turns the whole game into a bit of a joke if you ask me, sometimes I just sit there and laugh at the moronic way my units behave, because there is nothing else you can do. But it detracts enormously from game satisfaction for me, and was the primary reason I put my mouse down the last time.

    Oh, and a couple of other gripes I have (playing on VH) - when I charge through the gates of an enemy city to attack a unit, my units seem to rout almost immediately with heavy losses. I charged three full strength equite units into a stationary Greek cav unit (which was not heavy cav, but I don't recall which type it was) defending at the city gate crossroad, and all three of my equities routed within seconds with heavy losses! (And my army has a six or seven star general). This has happened to me several times. And BTW, I'm talking about a city defended with a palisade, so it's not from fire from the walls.

    The other gripe is a campaign map gripe and that is that AI armies are still sieging my cities for a turn or two and then wandering off for no apparent reason.

  20. #140

    Default Re: Initial Patch Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob the Insane
    Very Hard is morale boost to AI, morale penalty to player and slight combat boost to AI (attack and/or defense unknows). Player loses men faster than the AI (in fact AI hardly loses any men so I suspect the combat boost is to the defense value), AI's morale does not drop below eager while the players morale drops immedately to shaken and then quickly to wavering and to broken...
    What is the point to play on VH battles then? Based on this description, I reckon you would have to have a huge numerical superiority in every battle, if you are going to win one, that is :)

  21. #141
    robotica erotica Member Colovion's Avatar
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    Default Re: Initial Patch Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by screwtype
    I don't know about that. In my latest campaign as the Bruti I KO'd both Greece and Macedonia very early in the game, in spite of the fact they both declared war on me at the same time. By turn 24 I was already by far the largest faction, and this bothers me, because it just seemed too easy. I think that when your faction (or maybe any faction) becomes the front runner, all the other factions you share a border with should make an alliance and declare war on you. And they should continue to make war on you until you've been at least been beaten back to average size. After all, any faction that starts to outpace the others is ultimately the major threat to every faction.

    BTW I'm currently playing on H/VH (campaign/battle) so possibly a VH campaign would be harder, but judging by the ease with which I win battles on VH, I doubt it would be that much more challenging.
    I'm talking about AI vs AI.

    Obviously whatever faction the human plays will win, there's no challenge.
    robotica erotica

  22. #142

    Default Re: Initial Patch Thoughts

    Oh sorry, Colovion, obviously I completely missed the point of your original post.

    I still think something needs to be done to lessen the "steamroller effect" though, which is why I suggested the AI gang up on you when you start winning.

  23. #143

    Default Re: Initial Patch Thoughts

    This is one hell of a good patch, The guals gave me a run for my money by attacking me straight off and not waiting for me to come to them while Dacia hit me from the other flank.

    Another great thing is that during battles on the battle map, you see yours or enemy ships off the shore that you put there on the campaign map and I am hoping to see volcano's as well as wonders when I am close by them on the battle map, also using Fire arrows and artillery is awesome now and no frame rate drop (Unless your computer sucks ass).

    Going back to the AI besides Screwtypes constant bitchin and complainin on every dumbass post he makes, the AI now blockades ports, I have lost many diplomats to assassins, in battle the enemy sallied forth while I was besieging there settlement with reinforcements behind me and crushed me, The AI is making watch towers as well as attempting to ambush me. All in all its a great patch and makes for great campaigns it's like a totaly different game then 1.1, WELL DONE CA!!!!!!!!

  24. #144
    Member Member KeePah's Avatar
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    Default Re: Initial Patch Thoughts

    I liked R:TW before the patch, and I loves it after.

    I disslike reading about people who just complaining, complaining, complaining all the time, BUY ANOTHER GAME if you don't like it!

    All talking about the fast kill rate, have you ever lived in those times in real life? Do you think its hard to kill humans? Everything isn't just hollywood movies there the good and evil guy fights forever. I am the only one that thinks the battle is to slow? They stand and smashing on each other and never dies. And I don't play arcade style. And I'll never will.

    And remember it is just a game, stop whine!

    I adore CA for making impossible games come true!!



    Start hate me, I still play R:TW with a enjoyable smile. I love the game!!

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  25. #145

    Default Re: Initial Patch Thoughts

    I have to say that I have noticed a great deal of more inteligence from the AI - Ive had to adapt my strategies ALOT to compensate - which is cool.

    Ive lost several - very cool - battles that I sigh at because of the lack of campaign save replay (still a sore point).

    E.G. I landed an extremely professional Army - consisting of Praeoritan Cohorts, Archers, Legionary Cav and h/onangers outside carthage to beseige my scipii brother during the final stages of my Julii campaign last night.

    My forces total was about 1300. He stormed 3x 1300 (2 gens and a captain) into assault me before I could move. Not only that - but they all came from different directions. I managed to wipe out 1 of the 1300, and then reformed - only to see the other 2 forming up together in the distance. When they got closer I saw legionary cav and Urban cohorts en masse heading my way. Great. I got slaughtered, but I took another 1500 with me. GOD how I wish replays worked.

    Another time I was doing a simpler sige battle v the brutii at colon(?) and I was very very suprised to see my Onangers suddenly get hit by a flaming meteor taking one of them out. I zoomed over to see 2 sets of enemy onangers firing from behind the wall - priceless.
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  26. #146

    Default Re: Initial Patch Thoughts

    I've had a few nicer battles now too, especially since you can't sally endlessly and whittle the enemy down.

    I had 3 units of militia hoplites and 3 units of hoplites defending against an attack by the Thracians. 4 Falxmen, one unit of jav skirms and 2 generals. I let them take the gate down and guarded the routes to the center with the hoplites. 2 of the militia and 1 regular guarded the main route, one militia was in the square (the captain), and the other 2 regulars guarded other approaches.

    Well, the javelins decided to charge, and got butchered pretty badly. The Falxmen charge in after and manage to flank around the left side. I pull one of the regulars in to cover, as they are all attacking one point. Before they get there, the general charges and breaks through on the left. Suddenly we are taking massive casualties. The 2 militia rout and the regular is cut down. I move in with the captain and the regular that was enroute, and force-march the other regular in. Their general ends up caught between my first regular hoplite who is getting butchered, but still standing, and my captain. Almost all of the general's unit is destroyed, and they flee. The other hoplite gets to the street, and my front is stable again. In come the reinforcements (other general and a unit of Falxmen). The line barely holds, but the general is cut down, and the Falxmen rout.

    Total losses were higher for my side, but I had more men. Had I not already been moving in the unit of hoplites to reinforce the lines, they would have broken them open and I would have lost. Very close, but a fun battle (and yes, it'd have been nice to save it).

    Bh

  27. #147
    Squirrel Watcher Member Sinner's Avatar
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    Default Re: Initial Patch Thoughts

    Overall I'm edging towards being disappointed with the patch.

    That enemy units now have a tendancy to go after missile units that're targetting them is good, but they're still just as easily destroyed as when they just stood around dumbly watching each other get killed. It's very easy to the extent of being childishly simplistic to bait an enemy unit. They'll then happily charge straight into an ambush even to the extent of totally ignoring the units charging their flanks in their lust to catch the missile unit.

    One issue that does need to be watched is that the bait unit seems to need to retreat a lot sooner than pre-patch. The slow response to my orders to stop shooting and run for it has been painful to watch at times. It does make me wonder if this is a deliberate change to try and counter the easier baiting. As a note, it doesn't seem to be linked to the distance from the general - ie. a reasonable command delay - since I saw the same sluggishness when my general was practically breathing down my archers' necks.

    Pathfinding appears to have been amended, but I'd hesitate saying fixed...

    Cavalry was always a little awkward to use in cities, but now at times it gets really bizarre and I often get 2 or 3 troopers riding off in the opposite direction to where I clicked! They eventually turn around and rejoin their unit, but it's still a very irritating problem.

    This interesting pathfinding also extends to the campaign map: I had a general-led army just south of the bridge south of Mediolanium that I wanted to send to Segesta. Just to the west of Segesta was a single Hastati out of movement points. I selected my army, Segesta obviously showed up as well inside the green movement range. I click to move, but instead of heading directly south-east and into the settlement, the army heads direct east, heading around the mountain range just north of Segesta and tries to approach from the east, but runs out of movement points! I was not amused.

    I reloaded the game despite that meaning I'd have to refight 2 big battles and a sally and did some experimenting. It appears that the pathfinding AI was treating the Hastati with no movement points just to the west of Segesta as a barrier. Even if I first moved my army just to the west of the Hastati and then clicked on Segesta, it still tried to circle around the mountains to enter the settlement from the east. In the end I had to merge units and then select my original army from the combined stack to get them to move onwards. I've never seen this behavior in v1.0 and so can only assume it's due to the patch.

  28. #148

    Default Re: Initial Patch Thoughts

    Has anyone else found that Gaul is now obsessed with warbands? It is practically the only unit they build now. In 1.1 and 1.0 I encountered mixed armies with plenty of swordsmen and skirmishers, but now it is warbands, warbands, warbands, warbands, warbands and maybe a single unit of barbarian cavalry. I have seen maybe 8 units of skirmisher warband tops, and they were all ground down to less than 30 men by some AI versus AI battles. I have seen a few units of general's bodyguard cavalry, but that is not a build decision. A single unit of druids rounds out the tally.

    I have sat on my hands until around 240BC to let the AI build up and make for a challenging game (or so I hoped), so I cannot even say I have battered the AI so badly it can only use warbands. I'm the Julii and I only have 6 cities; the two starters and those on the Italian side of the Alps plus Segestica. The Gauls, according to my scouting, hold all of modern France. My scouting has also revealed every town garrisoned with warbands, and every army packed full of warbands. That unit type makes up about 99% of the faction's forces.
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  29. #149
    Senior Member Senior Member econ21's Avatar
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    Default Re: Initial Patch Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by frogbeastegg
    Has anyone else found that Gaul is now obsessed with warbands?
    Not so far; the Gauls my Julii face include some swordsmen, skirmishers and cav, but also some wardogs which I had not seen before.

  30. #150
    Alienated Senior Member Member Red Harvest's Avatar
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    Default Re: Initial Patch Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by frogbeastegg
    Has anyone else found that Gaul is now obsessed with warbands? It is practically the only unit they build now.
    This is not just Gaul. Carthage is doing the same with town militia. Numidia is doing it with javelinmen. Some have said the Romans are building a lot of town watch. There is something borked in the way the AI now decides what units to build. The suggestion I have heard is to increase the cost of the crap units, so that the AI starts building some better troops. At present it seems to think base level militia type/infantry are a bargain, so it builds them rather than decent units.

    An interesting approach to a game, RTW is...sort of like assemble it yourself furniture...but without the instructions. Hopefully, we can figure out what controls a lot of this and adjust so that we get proper armies.
    Rome Total War, it's not a game, it's a do-it-yourself project.

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