Initial Patch Thoughts

[Lord Preston]

just had a quick go and without going into to much detail the game just "feels" more complete, where before i'd get p****d off at it (like when the groups screw up and it launches my who army at a spearwall, yeah! thanks a lot you stupid GAME! *alt-f4*) it hasn't done anything "daft"......... yet

its the little things that make a huge improvement, this is what the game should of been to start with...

[Lord Preston]

"my who army" lol damn no edit. whole army i meant (its early in UK 6am, thats my excuse)

[TigerVX]

The AI does seem smarter, and in one battle I saw a port and my fleet in the background, a nice change of scenery

[sassbarman]

Just played about an hour with the new patch and I agree that it just seems like it's finished now, much more polished. However I do have a slight concern involving ai factions engaging in more subterfuge. With activities like assassination attempts being considered transgressions, I fear alliances will be much harder to maintain. This has been my experience so far in my current game as the seleucids, with my long time allies (pre-patch) Thrace twice ending our alliance with failed assassination attempts (post-patch) in only three turns. I hope this not going to be a regular occurance.

[GeWee]

Uhhh...yeah...it actually works the opposite of that. Single unit match ups often melee much longer. Big battles happen fast and you don't get much opportunity to issue orders.

Guess it keeps those with short attention spans happy though.

Sheesh...

Of course "single unit match ups often melee much longer" than when large armies clash. It's because the single units don't get flanked.

Sheesh...

Anyway, the reason why battles are over so quick isn't the kill rate, it's the fact that low-valor units rout as soon as the other side seems to get the upper hand.

Big battles do last longer unless you don't have reserves or reinforcements thereby letting all your units rout at the same time. If you rally your routing troops and keep a second line with fresh troops the large battles last way longer than smaller ones.
They don't last as long as battles did in real life no, but then our armies are like one tenth of the size of armies back then...

The only kill rate that would benefit from a change is the one for routers but that's a different issue.

[Colovion]

one sweet thing that I noticed.

I grouped 4 units, told them to go somewhere. Then I pressed R.

THEY ALL RAN! Wheeee

[Bhruic]

Well, managed to manually put 1/2/3 back as the keys for speed. Annoying to be so much trouble, but at least it works.

On a positive note, it's nice to see that they put a toggle in for time limits on battles. Can turn it off before sieges, and turn it back on for 'normal' combat.

Also nice to see that the AI actually proposed a ceasefire with me in the game I was continuing (start pre-patch). Was less nice to note that they quickly followed up the ceasefire agreement (which I accepted) with a blockade of my port (starting the war back up). Also not nice to note that the Egyptians decided to go to war with me by blockading my port. Lots of blockades happening, which is good, I suppose, but also silly. I mean, I have 12 ships in harbour, and the Egyptians try and blockade it with 1 ship. Which, of course, I can't sink even with 12 ships. Gah. Naval stuff is still pretty poor.

I guess if the game shipped this way, I'd be somewhat satisfied with the knowledge that another patch was coming to fix some of the outstanding issues. Knowing there isn't one (barring an absolutely fatal error) makes it a somewhat bittersweet moment.

Bh

[Kaldhore]

I didnt play for long last night - but One thing I noticed that pleased me was when I sallied and attacked my beseigers with my normal archer-full army, the enemy didnt run into firing range and stand there while I cut them down with arrows. Instead they went to a hill further away from my castle - well out of arrow range.

Nice.

Although there was a problem with my archers on the wall. When routing they just got stuck on the wall and I couldnt help them - they wouldnt come out of the rout too, even after 5 mins of speeded up game time and no enemy nearby. (they should have ran to the town square and rallied.)

[IceTorque]

just when i thought i was over my TW addiction along comes v1.2

minimal ui interface: love it
fatigue: has anyone noticed how quickly units recover, a quick smoko and they are ready for round 2, excellent.
smooth scrollin strat map: very nice.

the bad things: i don't care they are far outweighed by all the good stuff.

[Mr Frost]

...Grrr %$#@@#$! ....
I guess if the game shipped this way, I'd be somewhat satisfied with the knowledge that another patch was coming to fix some of the outstanding issues. Knowing there isn't one (barring an absolutely fatal error) makes it a somewhat bittersweet moment.

Bh

Remember , there is almost certain to be an expansion , that will not only bring a new dimension to the game {Mongol Expansion and Viking Expansion both proved worth having} but also another patch which might fix the remaining problems
*giagantic nudge to C/A : Campaign Battle Replays Please !*

[Sam Adams]

seems like theres an annoying tendancy to zoom to units now when I click on them now.

when elephants run amok its really really bad for your army now. really bad.

the enemy uses their navy very well. Im actually having a hard time keeping my trade routes open and keeping enough cash.

The gauls are sitting on this damned hill with archers besieging my city. Theres nothing I can do. Go up the hill and die or sit in the city and starve. hmmm. its nice that the AI isnt stupid(sometimes) anymore.

AI diplomacy occurs much more often.

Siege time limit has increased a bit, thats nice.

whats UI meen?

[Mr Frost]

whats UI meen?

Underpants Insurance . Better to be safe than sorry !

[Tocca]

One thing i wonder. They added a keyboard shortcut to select single units (as it were in MTW). I've missed this, and it's great that they fixed it.
But...

It's hardcoded to ALT+number 1 to 9.
Pressing ALT+ a number is a bit cumbersome, does anyone know if it is somehow possible to alter this?
I would very much like to use the number 1 to 9 without ALT.

It doesn't matter with the assigning part, which is CTRL+SHIFT+number, because you can do that before starting the battle.

I doubth it is possible, but no harm in asking.

[Bhruic]

Yes, I know about the expansion issue. I'm just not convinced that I should need to spend more money on the game to get things fixed.

And I suppose I sound like the patch is mediocre, at best, when in fact it's got a lot of things right. As I said, this is the way the game should have been released. It's just the fact that I know there won't be any more fixes until most likely October at the earliest (can't see the expansion coming out before then) means that I'll have to live with all of this unless it can be modded.

Bh

[PetMonkey]

This might be a little cynical... but does anyone else get the impression that the wrong game version got sent to the CD factories in the first place? After this patch it rather feels like we've been playing a beta these past few months.

It's happened before...

[BalkanTourist]

All in all I must say, I am disappointed.
1. Uber Peasants: I was attacking the enemy general with my general (17 bodygards). My general happened to meet some peasants while it was chasing the gen (it was an Eastern Gen) and lost.....10 bodygards to the peasants. I thought that was an exception, but then I lost my faction heir - 23 bodygards 7 stars, 3 bronze valor, scarred, to a unit of peasants and a unit of HA. BTW, I'm not new to the game.
2. I am playing the Seulecids and everyone wants to ally me, give me maps and even land (got Dumatha from Parthia). Also if you ask for let's say 2000 in 2 turns and they say - 450 in 8 turns, you can ask for 450 for 800 turns and they will agree!!! (The Transgression message appears).
3. Too many rebels who never retreat even with 7:2 odds. After I beat them I get 2 stars and numerous vertues and valor - in 3 years I had a 10 star and a 7 star general who started with one and 3 stars just by fighting rebels. When my gen retreats, instead of getting a bad vice, he gets the scarred virtue and has more hit points...
4. Battle A.I. is still dumb. Their gen will always head straight for your gen even if he is behind a wall of spears. The A.I. in MTW is better and gives me more challenge.

Sorry to be so scetchy but it is 5 am here and I got to get up at 8 so I am pressed for time. I will post some more to support my arguement later on today or tomorrow. But all in all, after so much waiting and anticipation, I am disappointed.

P.S. And I forgot to tell ya, that I had a CTD, which has happened only twice before since September.

[Colovion]

Oh yeah - note to other ORgers: Don't let the AI take control of your units.

I know I was foolish to do it, but I decided to trust the AI to control half of my forces to test them out. I gave them my Triarii, Merc Hoplites, Faction Leader and a bunch of Hastati. Now this is one of the first few turns so that's a pretty big army for that time. We had surrounded the enemy in a city - the computer got the bulk of the defenders on his side, but with his units he had the upper hand easily.

He lost almost every man - faction leader = dead - all the units totally annihilated, down to single digits on all of them. Oh and he inflicted about 30 total kills for his trouble...

I wasn't angry because I just now know that the friendly AI is still stupid and worthless; learning experience I call it.

[Barbarossa82]

Building is slower now, because the game doesn't bring you back to the "buildings completed in this turn" -page after selecting one town from the list and closing the town-page. Doesn't sound that bad, but that extra click sure annoys me.

Whoa, that's weird - for me it was exactly the opposite. Pre-patch, after visiting one of the towns mentioned in the "buildings completed" panel, and exiting that town's info panel, the "buildings completed" would not pop back up, and would stay at the side of the screen. Now it does pop back up, as does the recruitment scroll!

[Kyniskos]

Building is slower now, because the game doesn't bring you back to the "buildings completed in this turn" -page after selecting one town from the list and closing the town-page. Doesn't sound that bad, but that extra click sure annoys me.

Experienced the same thing. Turn off the citydetail screen. Will fix it. Annoying though.

But I am very pleased with the patch!
Even saw the senate build themselves an Urban Cohort and an Early first Cohort. It's going to be an intereesting civil war!!!

[Mayfield The Conqueror]

Played for two hours last night:

#1. AI is much better. Holds back generals and hits the flanks when you are engaged. I tried to just skirmish a garrison of two peasant units and the peasants attacked immediately. So many kudo's for inproving that.

#2. No more FF.. archers seems to not fire if there is something in front of them that they might hit. You no longer get the archers to fire continuous volleys and they are less powerful, but at least no more FF.

#3. Calvary charges in the flanks are no longer as devastating as they were.

#4. Smarter rebels.. they are actually attacking me instead of just standing there waiting for my 1 star general to get some practice.

#5. I did not see this in the previous version, but you can now cycle through all of your special units (generals, spies, and diplomats). Just click on the general in the town screen and then cycle using the arrows at the top. Brilliant!

I am much, much happier with the game now in its initial stages.. lets see how squalor gets you in later stages of the game now.

THANK YOU CA VERY MUCH!

[Colt374]

I am much, much happier with the game now in its initial stages.. lets see how squalor gets you in later stages of the game now.

From all the reports from people who have been resuming their old save games after installing the 1.2 patch, the squalor issue is all fixed now. People had save games where their cities were revolting all over the place due to squalor. After they installed the patch and reloaded their games, all their squalor unrest problems were gone.

Bodes well, I think.

Colt.

[R3dD0g]

From all the reports from people who have been resuming their old save games after installing the 1.2 patch, the squalor issue is all fixed now. People had save games where their cities were revolting all over the place due to squalor. After they installed the patch and reloaded their games, all their squalor unrest problems were gone.

Bodes well, I think.

Colt.

Was it really the squalor that was causing the revolts? In v1.1 I had more problems with distance to capital and general unrest than I did with squalor itself. My problems will probably be solved with the Zeus fix, at least until I play a faction where the temple is too far to bother with.

[Butcher]

#5. I did not see this in the previous version, but you can now cycle through all of your special units (generals, spies, and diplomats). Just click on the general in the town screen and then cycle using the arrows at the top. Brilliant!

Yes, it was there in vanilla.
But still, it does seem like the game that should have been released! :D

[_Aetius_]

The patch has made some good improvements but then, modders made those improvements in half the time it took these guys to release this patch

Just seems like they put some effort in but failed to get to the point, the battles are as many! have pointed out ridiculously short, and the battles are what are supposed to make this game great, its what makes it better than previous games of this type yet theyve failed to even come close to using this asset to its max.

I feel abit like the way i did when i first played the game awestruck but disappointed.

[Quillan]

The readme with the patch said that squalor penalty to public order is now capped at 100%. Before the patch, it was either 120% or 125%, I forget which at the moment. That extra 20-25% will make a huge difference at the upper end of the population figures.

[Rosacrux redux]

I have finally downloaded the bugger (after unsuccesful efforts for the last 24 hours - darn, there is something wrong with living in Greece methinks) and am going to give it a go tonite.

One question: has the phalanx side-stepping issue been adressed? (yes, I know, everybody has his own pet issue... and that's mine )

[Puzz3D]

Rosacrux redux,

The phalanx side stepping has been addressed, and the phalanx will engage much better now when in guard mode.


Aetius,

I think the quick fighting is due mostly to low morale on the units. The combat cycle itself seems to be much longer than it was in MTW. CA seems to want a large range on morale from very low to very high in order to leave lots of room in the system for upgraded units, battlefield upgrades and effect of the general's command stars. You could raise morale on the units by modding the unit descr file, and I think that would make the fighting last longer especially with large unit size rather than normal unit size. We've been asking for a morale slider or at least a 4 or 5 step selectable level in the options for 4 years now, yet the game, now in its 5th incarnation, still only has a morale on/off option. We are up against a philosophical difference of opion regarding more options in the game settings with CA. Their objection is that too many options would make the game overly complex for the average gamer.

[screwtype]

One question: has the phalanx side-stepping issue been adressed? (yes, I know, everybody has his own pet issue... and that's mine )

From what I've read, I believe it has. In fact I've read that phalanxes are a lot smarter now, and will maneouvre to best advantage when attacking a unit.

A couple of things I have noticed: first, the experience point thing seems to have been fixed. I sure hope so, because it seemed totally random before and it really, really bugged me.

This time, my units seem to be getting xp points from doing lots of killing, or from winning against odds, which is how it used to be in the earlier games. Also because of this, they appear to be picking up xp points quicker. It was taking me an absurdly long time to get xp points with version 1.0.

Another apparent positive is that scrolling around on the battle map appears to be MUCH smoother and crisper on my near-minimum spec machine - almost as good as STW! Mind you, I've only played a few smallish battles thus far, but I don't recall maneouvring around the battlefield to be anywhere near as easy as this. In fact, I've really enjoyed the few battles I've played, whereas previously it was a real pain trying to control the camera.

On the down side, I've been blockading a greek port with one of my ships for a number of turns and no greek ships have attacked it. Maybe it's because they're not as numerous as they used to be and they have other things to do, but it will be a bit disappointing if you can still blockade without being challenged.

Overall though, I have to say at this early stage I'm pleased with what I've seen so far.

[deafcadet]

Does anyone know what this means from the patch readme:

Bribing settlements and characters is now a transgression.

So what, do we get penalized for doing that now?

[Sparticus]

Can the game run in 1280x1024 yet? I'm stuck with 1024x768 post patch. I have'nt had the chance to snag the patch yet.