hoplites and falankes

**caesar44** · 02-10-2005, 16:19

hi
what is the best way from a roman point of view to fight hoplites or falankas
they are killing me throwing against them anything wont help and in face to face combat they are to strong

**Siris** · 02-10-2005, 16:25

Its called Phalanx, not falanx, get it right.

First off, dont run your men straight into their lines, try flanking them, do not use calvery vs. their front, you'll be massacred, even from the flank with calvery isnt too pretty, but its much better than trying to take them from the front.

Try to pound them with all of the arrow's you have, and once your men start fighting, keep fireing, even though you will lose some to your own archer fire, keep the vollies up.

Bring an Onager or two, though not so accurate, they can somtimes be very helpful in killing a lot of enemies. Say there is a Spartan Hoplite unit you have to take on, amonsts a few thousand other types of Hoplies, shoot those Spartans first, they'll fight he hardest & longest.

Put your men to auto fire, & have them throw as many pila's as they can before you take them on. Try to not make it a frontal assault, you most of the time wont break the line, & will sustain heavy casulties.

The main idea here is, missiles, & flanking. Pound with as many missles as you've got, & flank them.

Either way, your still going to lose a heap of soliders; the Greeks are good Roman killers.

**Red Harvest** · 02-10-2005, 16:33

Use your pila (both of them, fire at will will get them to throw both.) Everyone you kill with pila is one fewer to face in melee.

Use one unit to pin, and another to flank (on the ends.)

Use velites to soften them up.

Buy merc hoplites to pin them, while your agile hastati/principes flank.

Hit them in echelon or in such a way that the phalangites have to break up. If they don't form a continuous wall they are very vulnerable to flank and rear charges

**caesar44** · 02-10-2005, 16:44

got it
tns

**thisismyusername** · 02-10-2005, 17:18

Originally Posted by Siris

Its called Phalanx, not falanx, get it right.

First off, dont run your men straight into their lines, try flanking them, do not use calvery vs. their front, you'll be massacred, even from the flank with calvery isnt too pretty, but its much better than trying to take them from the front.

It's called cavalry, not calvery, get it right.

**LordKhaine** · 02-10-2005, 17:47

I'd just use my pikemen and laugh at their puny spears. Oh wait, you're Roman....

Use cavalry to single out archers and peltasts. Since the hoplites are so slow in a phalanx, it's an easy task to seperate and destroy their support troops away from the hoplites. And as mentioned before, onagers can really do some damage. Make sure to use firepots and keep your own men away! Firepots are just as inaccurate as they are lethal.

The most dangerous hoplites are armoured ones. Those guys are pretty damn arrow proof, so you'll have to eventually melee with them. Normal hoplites will quickly fall against a few units of archers. Horse archers are ideal, but they aren't exactly easy to recruit as mercs. The hoplites you cannot kill with arrows you'll have to finish off in a melee. Hoplites are slow, and the AI usually fails to maintain a decent battle line on the move. So you should be able to mug their hoplites one at a time with your infantry. The key to this is to get the Greeks to attack you first... otherwise they'll be sitting in their nice little defensive line. And then your flanking options are greatly reduced.

The Greeks can be pretty hard at times, but they just aren't as flexible (and thus dangerous) as many other factions.

**The Stranger** · 02-10-2005, 17:51

roman legions suck but try to use the root and rally tactic
walk your men to their battle line then retreat them with the retreat from battlefield option. they'll break up and chase you its even better in forest areas where your cavalry can spring a trap

**RollingWave** · 02-10-2005, 19:34

The main thing is... rely a lot on ur support units. Aux cav is very good in this situation as they can blast them from unprotected sides and afterwards they can still be used to charge from rear for a decent shock effect. archer are obviously always a must, when engaging them try to hit them from different sides and/or overwhelm them with one big push .. dogs are particularly helpful during for the one big push stratagy.

**Stlaind** · 02-10-2005, 19:38

Archers/skirmishers/slingers(as rome you can buy certain kinds as mercs)/other ranged from behind are quite deadly if you have the time. It seems that RTW actually takes facing into account for ranged hits. I like using town watch/auxilia (their cheap to retrain) as pinning troops the circle around with my cav. I would guess that the roman auxilia cav would be ood at this as well but I've never tried, they probably have too little ammo to make a real difference.

**Pellinor** · 02-10-2005, 17:26

Originally Posted by Siris

Its called Phalanx, not falanx, get it right.

It's "phalanx" in English, but not necessarily in other languages. How good are you at spelling obscure words in foreign tongues? You should cut people some slack on an international forum.

On the other hand, if Caesar44's first language is English he's in the wrong too

Cheers,

Pell.R.

**caesar44** · 02-11-2005, 16:46

Originally Posted by Pellinor

It's "phalanx" in English, but not necessarily in other languages. How good are you at spelling obscure words in foreign tongues? You should cut people some slack on an international forum.

On the other hand, if Caesar44's first language is English he's in the wrong too

Cheers,

Pell.R.

my language is not english
in any case i wrote falankes trying to attach the greek spelling

**Fridge** · 02-10-2005, 16:27

I think you've answered your own question - don't attack from the front!

Best way, IMO, is to weaken them with skirmishers (they're very slow when they're in formation, so javelin and even pilum throwers can get plenty of shots off) or missile troops. If you can get a unit of javelin throwers in behind them, where they're less protected, you're in business.

Flanking and rear attacks are the best method, and the best way to do that is to pin them from the front with an 'expendable unit' (sometimes a skirmisher unit set on loose formation can slow them down long enough without taking too many casualties), something cheap, and then hit them in the sides or rear with something - infantry, cavalry, or at a push, those skirmishers you were using to soften them up.

Don't be scared to run away, either. If you've got aline of legionnaries set to fire at will, let the phalanxes advance while you unload on them, and at the last minute, pull your line back, reform, and repeat to fade. If you can't run for whatever reason, you can slow them down using legionarries on fire at will and guard mode - you won't lose as many men and should buy yourself more time to flank.

But ultimately, from behind and from the sides...

Oh, and Siris, it's cavalry, not calvery. Get it right.

**parcelt** · 02-10-2005, 16:33

There are various things you can do (best is a combination):
- hire some hoplite mercs and use these to pin them down. Put some hastati at fire-at-will behind your hoplites.
- don´t have your units (any of them except hoplites) engage them up front.
- they are slow, giving you time to wear them down with skirmishers and archers. Also, it should be easy to manouver both cavalry and hastati around for flank and rear attacks, and they don´t take well to that

- if you can build onagers....

They are really no problem once you figure out how to handle them. They are only valuable if well supported by a combined force of other infantry, some cavalry and preferably some ranged units. However, even if the AI brings such a nicely balanced army it often has trouble using it correctly.