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A few people over at the Com and TWC have brought to light a HUGE bug which affects mounted bow equipped units (chariots included). Apparently mounted archer units cannot properly fire their missiles while galloping ('running') towards or away from an enemy!
http://p223.ezboard.com/fshoguntotal...ID=20725.topic
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/index...howtopic=20731
Some choice quotes...
CA may have a two patch deal with Activision but this is a big bug. We'd better start screaming our heads off now and demand a fix otherwise it'll be a looooong wait until the expansion comes out.
http://p223.ezboard.com/fshoguntotal...ID=20725.topic
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/index...howtopic=20731
Some choice quotes...
Originally Posted by :
I just discovered something real strange in custom battles after patch 1.2 is applied. Missile cav can not shoot on the move now. Instead there's animation of the archer getting ready to aim and fire but no arrow comes out. even though the unit card says they are firing, animation is moving, but no arrow is being shot out. they are only shoot while stationary or in cantabrian circle.
I just discovered something real strange in custom battles after patch 1.2 is applied. Missile cav can not shoot on the move now. Instead there's animation of the archer getting ready to aim and fire but no arrow comes out. even though the unit card says they are firing, animation is moving, but no arrow is being shot out. they are only shoot while stationary or in cantabrian circle.
Originally Posted by :
I have the exact same problem. I was in the middle of a Scythian campaign and could take down pretty much any infantry army of any size with just a couple of horse archers. After the patch they get chased around for ages by the enemy and never get a shot off. Sometimes they do shoot but no arrows fly, just the sound. During a siege the enemy would sally out of the front gate and would have to get within javelin range before they would start getting killed. It seems like maybe they messed with the range. As it stands, they're about as useless as HA in MTW--they run before they get a shot off.
I have the exact same problem. I was in the middle of a Scythian campaign and could take down pretty much any infantry army of any size with just a couple of horse archers. After the patch they get chased around for ages by the enemy and never get a shot off. Sometimes they do shoot but no arrows fly, just the sound. During a siege the enemy would sally out of the front gate and would have to get within javelin range before they would start getting killed. It seems like maybe they messed with the range. As it stands, they're about as useless as HA in MTW--they run before they get a shot off.
Originally Posted by :
Even after they halt, the arrows fail for one cycle.
Even after they halt, the arrows fail for one cycle.
Originally Posted by :
Well, it's not entirely gone.
Just tested a battle of scythian horse arches vs peasants -
They do fire as they used to while in Canterbarian circle
they also shoot while riding at slow speed, although firerate seemed very slow
they do NOT fire while running, and therefore not while moving away in "skirmish mode"
I've verified this bug myself in a few custom battles.Well, it's not entirely gone.
Just tested a battle of scythian horse arches vs peasants -
They do fire as they used to while in Canterbarian circle
they also shoot while riding at slow speed, although firerate seemed very slow
they do NOT fire while running, and therefore not while moving away in "skirmish mode"
CA may have a two patch deal with Activision but this is a big bug. We'd better start screaming our heads off now and demand a fix otherwise it'll be a looooong wait until the expansion comes out.
i dunno if that is a bug or not. Usually an arrow(or rifle) aimed from horseback was uselessly innacurate.
yes, but it still fired, didn't it
screams!
screams!
excellent, maybe now there can be a third patch to fix the few things that were missed? ie: campaign map replays etc...
I am absolutely sure that I was just shot at by galloping Pontos Missle Cavalry (in 1.2, no mods). They had one or two units left, and I was chasing their missle cav with a general and my javelin cavalry. They were not routing, but were running away from me. I saw the little 'being fired upon' icon over my general and zoomed in. There were no other units around, and my javelins were out of missles. I just happened to be right in tight on their cavalry when they spun around in their seats, lifted their bows and fired at me (behind them) at a full gallop. A second or two later they routed when my guys caught up with them. I don't think my guys died, so I can't confirm that the shots killed anyone, but i saw them shoot just a few minutes ago. I was playing as Seleukids. Dunno if there are problems elsewhere, but i'm just saying what I saw. I can't confirm the cantabrian circle or any of that other stuff either.
Can't try to retest this now. Gotta get some sleep.
Can't try to retest this now. Gotta get some sleep.
Lest someone doubt. Instead of "spun around", probably "twisted at the waist" would be more accurate for what they did. Some clown will say "see! he's lyin'!"
Originally Posted by Sam Adams:
i dunno if that is a bug or not. Usually an arrow(or rifle) aimed from horseback was uselessly innacurate.
Really? I would be very interested in the source of this information, considering it contradicts all the reports that I have read on the subject of Horse Archery among the many peoples of the Asiatic Steppes.i dunno if that is a bug or not. Usually an arrow(or rifle) aimed from horseback was uselessly innacurate.
I do not agree with Celtibero Mordred's statement about accuracy either. So you now have no FAW while skirmishing away from enemy? Why then would the mode be called 'skirmish' if they clearly do not 'skirmish'???
I waited ages for 'realistic' horse archers [ firing on the move, Parthian shot etc ] we had them finally and now CA have dropped another one.
Oh well I guess RTW will stay on my shelf
.......Orda
Originally Posted by Sam Adams:
i dunno if that is a bug or not. Usually an arrow(or rifle) aimed from horseback was uselessly innacurate.
You must be JOKING. Look at how the Mongols and Native Americans could fire their bows/rifles from horseback! Probably better than most people could standing still! The sport of horse archery still exists, btw.i dunno if that is a bug or not. Usually an arrow(or rifle) aimed from horseback was uselessly innacurate.
Check this out:www.horsebows.com/bows
God! Why can't the people at CA get anything right? This is pathetic!
Of course it's not realistic, and it had better be a bug, and they had better fix it fast. I'm sick and tired of this crap.
Originally Posted by :
i dunno if that is a bug or not. Usually an arrow(or rifle) aimed from horseback was uselessly innacurate.
Wrong. i dunno if that is a bug or not. Usually an arrow(or rifle) aimed from horseback was uselessly innacurate.
Of course it's not realistic, and it had better be a bug, and they had better fix it fast. I'm sick and tired of this crap.
Sounds like a bug induced by the fixing of the friendly fire bug to me.
OK, I'm not normally in favour of baiting the developers, especially when the majority of what they have delivered seems well received, but this....???? True, the Human player can get round the (lack of) functionality to some extent through some unwanted micromanagement, but will the AI be able to cope? I doubt it.
Can't see why it should be the FF fix that has done it (though I don't know the code obviously) as from what people have said it happens when there are no other friendlies around. Consequently, one can only assume it's a deliberate change in the HA combat routines. But WHY have they done it?
I think in this case some CA contribution would be of value to the community. And to the community as a whole - if we do get some comments, don't flame the hell out of them before they get started...
Cheers,
Rob.
Can't see why it should be the FF fix that has done it (though I don't know the code obviously) as from what people have said it happens when there are no other friendlies around. Consequently, one can only assume it's a deliberate change in the HA combat routines. But WHY have they done it?
I think in this case some CA contribution would be of value to the community. And to the community as a whole - if we do get some comments, don't flame the hell out of them before they get started...
Cheers,
Rob.
I think we've found RTW's equivalent of the "King dies at 56" bug.
I think its more an implementation then a bug. I tested with Parthian HA's today, and found some interesting results. I tried the Persian Cavalry, they used the parthian shot effectively and like normal. Then I tried regular HA's, they didn't use it at all. This leads me to believe that only your elite HA's can actually use the Parthian shot.
After some testing I think that this might not be a FF issue. It would seem that HA fire *once per order*. In other words, order them to move somewhere, and they'll fire a volley. Then issue another move order, and they'll fire the second volley, regardless of where they are with respect to the enemy. If it was a FF issue they either wouldn't fire the volleys properly, or it would depend on where they are relative to the enemy. This is why it seems that switching the skirmish mode off seems to fix it - then you have to babysit them and constantly issue orders, each of which is followed by a volley. Skirmish OTOH moves them away, but the animation cycle is so long it gets interrupted when they pause after being far enough (or something to that effect, or they don't fire at all any more, I'm not sure here), so they have to start the animation over, hence they effectively fire only when standing still. They'll fire the parthian shot while being chased by the cavalry, but they won't continue firing after that and decimate the pursuers that will never be able to catch them - instead, you'll have to babysit them if you want them to massacre cavalry pursuers.
I've run 20 or so tests with different angles and velocities, and this basically came out as the only valid conclusion. I haven't tested much against cavalry though, mostly against levy pikemen.
So, IMO it's a "tweak". Do I like it - heck no!!! but I think this is how it works. Can anybody confirm this?
I've run 20 or so tests with different angles and velocities, and this basically came out as the only valid conclusion. I haven't tested much against cavalry though, mostly against levy pikemen.
So, IMO it's a "tweak". Do I like it - heck no!!! but I think this is how it works. Can anybody confirm this?
I've just run a few more custom battles, this time with cavalry - one unit of greek cav vs. one unit of HA. And it's a disgrace - not a single GC man got shot by the HA in the 5 battles I did! Those animation cycles are too long for the HA to take the parthian shot or whatever, but it's definitely not to my liking.
On a side note, it seems I still need to alt-charge the cataphracts for them to switch to maces later. I though that was supposed to be fixed?!
On a side note, it seems I still need to alt-charge the cataphracts for them to switch to maces later. I though that was supposed to be fixed?!
Originally Posted by hrvojej:
After some testing I think that this might not be a FF issue. It would seem that HA fire *once per order*. In other words, order them to move somewhere, and they'll fire a volley. Then issue another move order, and they'll fire the second volley, regardless of where they are with respect to the enemy. If it was a FF issue they either wouldn't fire the volleys properly, or it would depend on where they are relative to the enemy. This is why it seems that switching the skirmish mode off seems to fix it - then you have to babysit them and constantly issue orders, each of which is followed by a volley. Skirmish OTOH moves them away, but the animation cycle is so long it gets interrupted when they pause after being far enough (or something to that effect, or they don't fire at all any more, I'm not sure here), so they have to start the animation over, hence they effectively fire only when standing still. They'll fire the parthian shot while being chased by the cavalry, but they won't continue firing after that and decimate the pursuers that will never be able to catch them - instead, you'll have to babysit them if you want them to massacre cavalry pursuers.
I've run 20 or so tests with different angles and velocities, and this basically came out as the only valid conclusion. I haven't tested much against cavalry though, mostly against levy pikemen.
So, IMO it's a "tweak". Do I like it - heck no!!! but I think this is how it works. Can anybody confirm this?
After some testing I think that this might not be a FF issue. It would seem that HA fire *once per order*. In other words, order them to move somewhere, and they'll fire a volley. Then issue another move order, and they'll fire the second volley, regardless of where they are with respect to the enemy. If it was a FF issue they either wouldn't fire the volleys properly, or it would depend on where they are relative to the enemy. This is why it seems that switching the skirmish mode off seems to fix it - then you have to babysit them and constantly issue orders, each of which is followed by a volley. Skirmish OTOH moves them away, but the animation cycle is so long it gets interrupted when they pause after being far enough (or something to that effect, or they don't fire at all any more, I'm not sure here), so they have to start the animation over, hence they effectively fire only when standing still. They'll fire the parthian shot while being chased by the cavalry, but they won't continue firing after that and decimate the pursuers that will never be able to catch them - instead, you'll have to babysit them if you want them to massacre cavalry pursuers.
I've run 20 or so tests with different angles and velocities, and this basically came out as the only valid conclusion. I haven't tested much against cavalry though, mostly against levy pikemen.
So, IMO it's a "tweak". Do I like it - heck no!!! but I think this is how it works. Can anybody confirm this?
I did more test and I have to say you are right, that's what happens, and the reason why they do fire when they are in skirmish mode off. I'm afraid we will have to use cantabrian circle more often now.
At least horse/chariots archers haven't become useless (they weren't in previous TW): they can shoot standing still, and while moving under certain circumstances... But yes, it's annoying. CA said 1.2 would be the last patch, so let's hope they finally release a small unnofficial fix for this issue before the expansion pack.
im afraid that anyone saying "Its like a new feature" and Mordred talking about skirmish mode are forgetting a few things, such as the fact that us forum users make up around what? 1% of all Total War players?
Most people will not know how to get round this, especially as its a feature in the games manual stating that cav archers will fire on the move automatically.
Saying that its not a problem for you is being short sighted and downright stupid like all those idiots on .com saying that no new patch will ever be needed.
For that matter CA, how about some badly needed rebalancing? Sod the small bugs, the fact egypt can beat anything with an army made of 2 different units is a serious enough bug for me.
Most people will not know how to get round this, especially as its a feature in the games manual stating that cav archers will fire on the move automatically.
Saying that its not a problem for you is being short sighted and downright stupid like all those idiots on .com saying that no new patch will ever be needed.
For that matter CA, how about some badly needed rebalancing? Sod the small bugs, the fact egypt can beat anything with an army made of 2 different units is a serious enough bug for me.
tell me, your horse is galloping at full speed, you don't hold on to it and instead u shoot a bow and arrow accurately?
Good lord. Please stop! You don't know anything about the steppe do you?
Horses can be controlled easily by only with your legs. These were the best.
YOU ARE WRONG. PLEASE STOP!
And bows are way more accurate than guns on horse back. Besides, I'd take a steppebowman over any wannabe gunslinger today.
Frankly, if you don't know what you talking about, don't tell us this. Because we want it fixed, and don't try and stop us from playing a good game. I'm sick of all the ignorant comments.
Horses can be controlled easily by only with your legs. These were the best.
YOU ARE WRONG. PLEASE STOP!
And bows are way more accurate than guns on horse back. Besides, I'd take a steppebowman over any wannabe gunslinger today.
Frankly, if you don't know what you talking about, don't tell us this. Because we want it fixed, and don't try and stop us from playing a good game. I'm sick of all the ignorant comments.
I have to agree. I can't get horse archers to shoot arrows very often and I can't get elephant archers to shoot at all!!!!! 
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