Successors : Total War (former Diadochi Total War)

[Meneldil]

As Alexander the Great lay on his death bed, his generals and close friends gathered around him... soon the inevitable question had to be asked... who would be alexander's successor, to whom his kingdom would be passed? Alexander responded simply.. To the strongest

The mod is based on Alogic's work (you can find all what he have done in the MTW mod sub-forum). It will take place a few years after Alexander's death (we are still debating the start date. I'm thinking about either 308BC -begining of the 4th Diadochi War- or 301BC -right before the battle of Ipsus-) and end in 64BC (Fall of the Seleucid Kingdom). The main factions will be the Diadochi kingdoms : Macedonia, the Seleucid Kingdom, the Ptolemaic Kingdom, the Antigonid Kingdom and the Lysimachid Kingdom.


The team is composed of
Seleucus I Nicator
Xanthipos
Drakon
Alexandros of Makedon
Mythos
Alogic
Attilla Reloaded
Rider
Me
And of course, many people who are willing help even if they aren't part of the team.

I'll post news here, as the development goes on.

02/06/2005 - We've agreed on the start date. It will be 308 BC. The end date will be 64BC
02/10/2005 - New forum opened in Drakon's site
02/13/2005 - Got contacted by Alogic, who was working on the Diadcohi Mod for MTW. He might join the team, if he has time to do so.
02/15/2005 - Mythos and Alogic join the team, as history and graphic workers.
02/16/2005 - New skins made by Xanthipos : Akontiste, Thorakitai Peltast, Bronze shield pikemen. You can find them in the official forum.
02/22/2005 - Attilla Reloaded joins the team as a very good skinner. He'll work firstly on the Antigonid faction.

[Meneldil]

I'll post here the faction list, with informations for each factions if I have enough time :

The Diadochi :

1 - Antigonos
2 - Seleukos
3 - Ptolemy
4 - Kassander
5 - Lysimachos
6 - Epirote Kingdom

Hellenic Factions :

7 - The Achean League
8 - The Bosphorus Kingdom
9- Syracuse

Barbarian Factions :

10 - The Galatians
11 - The Scythians

Eastern Factions :

12 - Pontus
13 - The Parthians
14 - Bactria
15 - Carthage

Indian Faction :

16 - The Mauryan Empire

Roman Faction :

17 - Rome

[Meneldil]

Unit list

Though unit list isn't nearly finished, we have some unit ready.

Titus Andronicus from TWCenter allowed me to use some of his units

Here are some we might use in Successors Total War :


Syrian archers :



Desert archers :


Ptolemaic cavalry :


Seleucid elephants :


And a few others. You can find Titus' units here

Update 03/05/05

The Antigonid army :

Here are some of the unit that will be used by the Antigonid faction.

Antigonid Red Shields :






Antigonid White Shields :




Antigonid Pantadopoi :




Asiatic archers :




Antigonid Companions :






Antigonid Satrapal Cavalry :





And here are the True Agryraspids, with their info card and unit card :



Skins by Attilla Reloaded


The Macedonian Army :

Our other skinner, Xanthipos, has made some units for the Macedonian (Cassander) faction.

Macedonian Thorakites Peltast :



(Work in progress, the javelin will likely disapear in final version, and the shield pattern will be edited)


Macedonian Thureophoroi Peltast :



(Work in progress, the javelin will likely disapear in final version)


Macedonian Akontistes :




Other units :


Cappadocian Hillmen (by Attilla Reloaded) :




Romfoeforoi Peltast (by Xanthipos) :




Galatian Swordsmen (by Xanthipos) :





NB :All these skins are work in progress and are subject to changes.


You can find other skins by Xanthipos here
You can find other skins by Attilla here

[Meneldil]

I'm going to post ideas about the map in general, aswell as Cities and Provinces names.

The map

Basically, our map will cover the area from Sicilia to the west of modern India.

Here are some maps that we will use if we start a new map from scratch :

Hellenistic Kingdoms from 303 BC to 145 BC
Kingdoms of the Diadochi after the Battle of Ipsus and at the beginning of the struggle with Rome

To that, you have to add a part of the Italian peninsula and Sicilia.

Update 05/23/05

Here is the latest version of map_height.tga. As you can see, we're using Dead Moroz' Mundus Magnus map.



We might increase the map size later on, for gameplay issues (as the Mauryan empire -India- will be in).

Some screenshots of WIP Macedonia. Cassander's (Macedonia) faction symbol will be edited, as it might be an issue for some people :




I've deleted the previous version as it is useless now.

[Meneldil]

We're going to have new ancilliaries, V&V aswell as some new, more historically accurate banners.

Update 03/05/05

New Ptolemaic Symbol :

[caesar44]

hi
about sicily
syracuse was the main hellenic power in the west at that time under its tyranous

[Meneldil]

Syracuse won't be a faction on its own. It might end up as a heavily protected rebel city

[caesar44]

ok
its logic

[Andromachus Theodoulos]

It is so nice to see someone actually trying to put together a historically accurate mod. The skins and models I have seen are exquisite and I cannot wait for you guys to release it.

The Romans are exciting, but I feel that the Hellenistic Age, especially the Age of the Successors is far too often ignored in many areas. The Hellenistic Age is perhaps my favorite period in history.

You guys are doing excellent work, keep it up!!!!

Andromachus

[Meneldil]

Post updated. Check out the official forum for more updates

[AntiochusIII]

Good mod! You have my support : spiritually at least

One question: How can you implement the strategic complexities of that age within the engine limit? I mean, how can you make events like those that happen to Demetrius Poliorcetes possible? (It's gonna be cool going around the map besieging everybody even though you're practically homeless! Or perhaps to reflect the economic boom and military activities of that age?)

Not that I'm being picky, but, I'm just being curious.

Great concept, solid start, and my personal liking for the sophistication and power politics of the age before those Barbaric Romans swept in

[Meneldil]

Well, we'll likely not be able to do such a thing with events and codding.

On the other hand, we'll set the starting positions so things happen more or less as they did in history.
Anyway, you'll see after the release ;)

[caesar44]

Good mod! You have my support : spiritually at least

One question: How can you implement the strategic complexities of that age within the engine limit? I mean, how can you make events like those that happen to Demetrius Poliorcetes possible? (It's gonna be cool going around the map besieging everybody even though you're practically homeless! Or perhaps to reflect the economic boom and military activities of that age?)

Not that I'm being picky, but, I'm just being curious.

Great concept, solid start, and my personal liking for the sophistication and power politics of the age before those Barbaric Romans swept in

you called the romans a barbarians (in contras to the hellenes) please explain

[Keba]

you called the romans a barbarians (in contras to the hellenes) please explain

Because they were. Almost all the products of Roman culture are from Helada. Even though the Hellenes lost their independence, they have, in essence conquered the Roman Empire.

The Romans were, in effect, barbarians. Powerful, but their culture was not very advanced, it only began to develop thanks to Hellenic influence.

[Andromachus Theodoulos]

I apologize for posting this here, but I do not know where else...

Is there a way that you guys who are creating these new units can post them for download either here or over at Draksen. Right now I only have the Ptolemaic heavy cavalry and the Syrian Archers.

Have I perhaps missed where you guys located these for download.

I really want to incorporate them into my campaign games.

Again, sorry for posting this here if I was not supposed too. (I did not know where else)

Andromachus

[Andromachus Theodoulos]

FYI,

I left a message over on TW Center, I am not able to access the Forums on Draksen.

Don't know if I messed something up when I registered or if the site is partially down for awhile.

Andromachus

[Meneldil]

Titus Andronicus' units aren't specially designed for Successors TW, so you will be able to download them once they're ready.

Xanthipos units won't be released before the mod release (except his Alexander army project)

Attilla Reloaded will probably allow you to use his skins from his army of the Diadochi project, but his skins for STW will likely not be released before the mod release aswell.

[Andromachus Theodoulos]

Thanks for the news Meneldil!!

I was asking because I do not have access to any software like 3dsmax and I have not been able to located any texture modification software like Photoshop.

What I am intending on doing is replacing the Greek and other units that use the sun hat (the cowboy hat). It might be historical in some aspects, but it really bothers me. I prefer the thracian, boeotian and other classical open-faced helmets. I especially like the greek hybrid helmet they (CA) used for the Hoplites and hoplite militia. I do not know why they used the corinthian helmet for the elite hoplites, since in the books I have read, they claim that the corinthian died out in Greece in the early 5th century BC.

I just wanted to get access to some of the units I saw in the screen shot to replace the default ones in vanilla RTW.

Perhaps, could some be convinced to just submit a couple and I could take the files and plug them into my game???

Just asking.

[AntiochusIII]

More Question:
Are Titus Andronicus' unit provided with stats or do I have to create my own? I'm getting tired of the evil axe-mummies.

Thank you.

To answer Caesar44:

The Romans are not very advanced culturally or politically compare to the Hellenistic World. They are - say - simple-minded and determined (and that is actually the strength with allows them to conquer the Mediterranean world.)

The Hellenistic monarchs understood the meaning of "power politics" and the "balance of power" which are the terms used widely in Europe during the 18-19th century. They play alliances, marriages, and intrigues to keep everybody in check. This keep all those hostile states standing adjacent to each other relatively "balanced." Nobody gets too strong and begin conquering everyone. So, when the Romans swept in, the Hellenistic world is easily conquered when meet with Roman aggression and their unintentional exploit of the weakness of the Balance of Power system (which creates many small powers to balance the great ones and also creates hatred that cannot be expressed easily against each other.) by their world-famous motto: Divide and Conquer.

An Example of these is about Antiochus III of the Seleucid Empire. Now, after Philip V's defeat (though very much alive), Antiochus was also expanding his power in Asia Minor, and began to establish footholds in Thrace. The Romans don't want another major power in Europe so they kind of "ordered" Antiochus out of Europe. Antiochus, true to the core of power politics (intrigue/alliance to keep the balance of power), simply play the game Hellenistic way and ally himself with the Aetolian League to counter Rome's power. Romans, unfortunately, do not understand this concept and regard this an aggression. So they simply declare war on him and just crush him in battle outright.

[caesar44]

More Question:
Are Titus Andronicus' unit provided with stats or do I have to create my own? I'm getting tired of the evil axe-mummies.

Thank you.

To answer Caesar44:

The Romans are not very advanced culturally or politically compare to the Hellenistic World. They are - say - simple-minded and determined (and that is actually the strength with allows them to conquer the Mediterranean world.)

The Hellenistic monarchs understood the meaning of "power politics" and the "balance of power" which are the terms used widely in Europe during the 18-19th century. They play alliances, marriages, and intrigues to keep everybody in check. This keep all those hostile states standing adjacent to each other relatively "balanced." Nobody gets too strong and begin conquering everyone. So, when the Romans swept in, the Hellenistic world is easily conquered when meet with Roman aggression and their unintentional exploit of the weakness of the Balance of Power system (which creates many small powers to balance the great ones and also creates hatred that cannot be expressed easily against each other.) by their world-famous motto: Divide and Conquer.

An Example of these is about Antiochus III of the Seleucid Empire. Now, after Philip V's defeat (though very much alive), Antiochus was also expanding his power in Asia Minor, and began to establish footholds in Thrace. The Romans don't want another major power in Europe so they kind of "ordered" Antiochus out of Europe. Antiochus, true to the core of power politics (intrigue/alliance to keep the balance of power), simply play the game Hellenistic way and ally himself with the Aetolian League to counter Rome's power. Romans, unfortunately, do not understand this concept and regard this an aggression. So they simply declare war on him and just crush him in battle outright.

so from your point of view any culture that was not as advanced as the hellenes was barbaric
hmmm
very advanced point of view
you said that the romans were barbarians because they won their war with the hellenes
hmmm
so if the romans lost that war they were not barbaric just because their understanding of the hellenic balance of power
what do think about 1000 years of fighting between the greek states ?
the moment that the macedonians saw weakness they conquered helas , that makes them barbarians ?
the romans had advanced political system already in the 5 century bce
the roman lew system is the basis of modern law
latin is the basis for western europe languages
the roman military system was better then the greek , that makes them barbarians
the spartans throw their defective childrens , that make them an advanced culture ?
the hellenes established a dictatoric kingdoms the romans were a democracy for centuries , who was more advanced ?
think about it

[AntiochusIII]

Rome Democracy??? Is that a joke? No, I'm not being harsh. Every modern historian knows Rome is never a "Democracy."

The senate is controlled entirely by the "noble" class, the Patricians. The Plebians (sp?) never really held any real power despite their "victory" in the social conflicts. Their majority power were used by dictators for their (dictators') own ends during the late Republic, though, and those dictators (Caesar included) never tried to turn Rome into a sort of "ruled by majority" government.

I'm sorry not to make myself clear by saying "barbaric." What I mean is that Rome is not very willing to play diplomatic games with the Hellenistic kingdoms because they were - like - don't understand very well (they do understand, but not very adept at it) those Hellenistic - and 19th European ideas. Which, I must state, isn't a magnificent world-saving system either, since it failed utterly seeing them as the reason of the the World Wars and how Rome just conquers them all. Rome was determined to go for simpler diplomatic ideas during those times. They understood Hellenistic attempts to control the balance of power as an aggression against them.

No, Sparta isn't very advanced. I never stated so. That city-state is a very unique case, as the description of the Spartan hoplite unit says (or should I say even the description...) Sparta has been left behind in time. They were ultra-conservative for centuries even before the Golden Age of Greece.

The Macedonian kings established their kingdoms under the influence of the Oriental monarches - well, the Kings of Persia. That was to rule their new domains, besides, they were Macedonians, which have kings, most of them, at least.

Macedon was more "crude" than the Greeks before Philip's reign. Even then, the more "barbaric" ideas influence Macedon greatly (like the tribal nature of their lands, Greeks do have them but those tribal natures gave way to the city-states), that doesn't make them inferior militarily, if a little inferior culturally.

Roman and Macedonian military systems were later developments after the Greek system. Rome, I'd say, has created a world-conquering military system based on the influences of many people, Greek included. (though not primary like in Macedonia.)

The influences of Rome on the Modern world that you claimed are leftovers from the age of the Empire, not the Early Republic, even if their origins start there.

But hey, this is a Diadochi mod thread. I don't want to flood it with our discussion. You could invite me somewhere else, though. Please post here if you wish to continue elsewhere and tell me where.

- - Good Luck with your mod, then, for the thread owner - -

[caesar44]

ok
but we are dealing with a game that history is its basic idea
good luck moders

[Meneldil]

Topic updated : new skins, new faction symbol and a map preview.

[Myrddraal]

Is that campmap the same scale as the original?

[Meneldil]

More or less yes, unhappilly. I was firstly thinking about increasing the map size, but there was some problem (a CTD when the screen reached some areas of the map).
I still have a version of the map with only 4 provinces, and I might try to enlarge it once more later (though I doubt it will work).

[Myrddraal]

I believe that by editing the size of the radar image, you can get rid of the 'stretched' effect on the radar. Hope that helps...

[Meneldil]

Oh yeah, I know that (well, at least, I can get rid of the background map). I'll take care of that later.

[Meneldil]

New forum opened here

[AntiochusIII]

Whoa...I see that you guys get very far now.

Good Luck!

[Meneldil]

As the first build release is approaching, I've been able to play a custom battle between Cassander and Antigonos' factions. Here are some screenshots :

The Macedonian army is waiting for its opponents :


A few minutes later, the Macedonian companions charge these suicidal Antigonid greek archers.


The Macedonian Thorakites get exterminated by the White Shields and the Antigonid Companions


The major part of my army is fleeing. The levy Phalangite and the Pezhetairoi are getting slaughetered by the Antigonid army...



All these skins are WIP. If you see bugs or things that should be fixed, please notice us, and everything will be fixed for the release.
Comments are welcome :)