Let's get to work: MP maps

[Louis de la Ferte Ste Colombe]

I had a try at the -enable_editor command line and was wondering if we could expand a bit the number of maps available for MP.

-enable_editor is a command line to add to your RTW shortcut. It enables the battle editor.
Once the command line is added, go to options, then start "Battle editor". You are directed to a screen with a small map of Europe.
Click on a square, and then next, and voila, you are designing a map.
The only thing we need to do from there is to press F1, tick on "MP maps" and save the map. THen you got to move the newly created "folder maps" around, but we'll get back to that point.

Each map is 2/2.5 Mb each, half that if zipped. That would make a mappack quite space consuming.
Would anyone be kind enough to host 50Mb of maps?

An alternative would be to have a very clear way to name maps so that we could all use the battle editor, and create the maps as we need them.

As a way to name maps I'd propose:

1/gives the texture name: RTW got
- alpine: ALP
- highland: HLD
- mediterranean: MED
- rocky_desert: RDS
- sandy-desert: SDS
- semi-arid: ARI
- sub-arctic: ACT
- swamp: SWP
- Temperate_forest_deep: TFD
- Temperate_forest_open: TFO
- Temperate_grassland_fertile: TGF
- Temperate_grassland_infertile: TGI
- Volcanic: VOL

2/ some idea of what is in there: is it flat, hills or mountain
- flat: FLT
- hills: HIL
- mountain: MTN
- wood: WOD

3/ Rivers Y/N: if there is one add RIV

Then I'll add the XX-YY location of the map.

So a gallic open plain would be something like:

[TFO-FLT]_49-98

I know it's not really poetic

The real question is: if I creae that map in my folder using that name, and if someone else pick the same exact spot, and give it the same exact name, is there any reason we can't play online together WITHOUT EXCHANGING FILE AT ALL?

In that case, all we would need is a single list of names for maps... And everyone would be able to play them.


What do you think would be easier? make a 50 Mb mappack? or trying to use the battle editor to create all the maps each on our own but sharing the way we make maps and name them?
(or just creates the map we feel would be of some interest; in which case, we still need to post the good spot).

I do think that RTW lack of maps in MP is a problem. Now the solution is in our hands.

Louis,

[Jochi Khan]

I hope Orda Khan has seen this thread.

He made some very good maps for MTW/VI

Jochi

[Orda Khan]

Just read it
Louis, would that be space -enable_editor, like the space -ian command?
It may be worth installing the patch just to have a look at the editor, there certainly is not much else about RTW that appeals but it seems CA have even over complicated this feature.
I would prefer to see 'poetic' map titles though Louis

.....Orda

[Louis de la Ferte Ste Colombe]

Yes Orda, that would be " -enable_editor".

My thought right now is we may not have to download maps AT ALL. After all, those maps are already on the campaign map!
All that it takes is we all name them the same way.

The alternative is to use the map editor creatively, alter maps from campaign, and then save them; in that case, download is compulsory, and for sure we can get poetic map Orda

(although some ways of knowing whether it's desert or hill or if it got a river would be appreciated: note, there is a comment box, maybe we can use it too?)

Louis,

[Nigel]

Louis, a very interesting concept !

I can see 2 things happening here (and they could both happen in parallell).
What you are suggesting is basically freeing up the pre-made maps of the SP campaign for MP battles. This is something everyone could do without downloading files using your nomenclature. All we would need is maybe a list of what are good terrains to use for this.

At the same time we could have creatively designed maps which would have to be downloaded, but which could have poetic names, like Orda suggests. There may be only a few of them, and perhaps made for special occasions (like tournaments, re-enactments etc.).


I'd love to give your way a try.
What do I have to do after saving [TFO-FLT]_49-98 ?
And can be meet up and try it out ?

[Louis de la Ferte Ste Colombe]

Ok, I feel like trying Aelwyn idea.... and my initial idea too

In the file:

C:\Programmes\Activision\Rome - Total War\Data\custom_locations

I just added the following entry:

custom_location Test_49-98
{
location 49 98
image data/menu/grass1.tga
sett_locked no
summer no
}


I have also created the following folder using the battle editor:

C:\Programmes\Activision\Rome - Total War\Data\world\maps\battle\custom\[TFO-FLT]_49-98

which I have copied in

C:\Programmes\Activision\Rome - Total War\Data\world\maps\custom\[TFO-FLT]_49-98

If anyone feel like giving it a go tonight, I'll be in the lobby.... you know my user

Louis,

[Aelwyn]

The real question is: if I creae that map in my folder using that name, and if someone else pick the same exact spot, and give it the same exact name, is there any reason we can't play online together WITHOUT EXCHANGING FILE AT ALL?

If I understand the way this is set up, it might not even be necessary at all. Just to see how it worked, I tried saving a new map, then seeing if I could load a battle onto it. After looking for the correct folder to move the map into, I realized the maps we use in MP aren't really saved in a custom folder, at least it doesn't seem like it. I might be confused. But the info for the maps seems to be in the "custom_locations" file in the Data folder. I added a location to the bottom, and it seemed to load fine in a custom battle. I also got online quickly to check if it was listed there, and it was. So, maybe all it would take is for someone to add as many locations as we want to have, just change the X and Y for each map. And if they want to take a screenshot of the map to add in the map selection screen, that info is there as well, along with the path for it. So that might be a simpler solution to what you're proposing. Just open the battle editor, find a map you like, take a screenshot, then add appropriate text to that file.

But where would custom maps go? I haven't figured that out yet.

[Orda Khan]

This being the case, I fear map making is a thing of the past. Nobody will install a map pack when they already have hundreds to choose from.

No need for me to install the patch after all

.....Orda

[Aelwyn]

This being the case, I fear map making is a thing of the past. Nobody will install a map pack when they already have hundreds to choose from.

No need for me to install the patch after all

.....Orda

You're giving too much credit to the maps that came with the game. I'm sure you and I both can think of many maps made by community members that are better than original ones in any of the TW games.

[Aelwyn]

I can work on some of this, but the problem is, there's literally thousands of maps, and I'm thinking it might be overkill to have a bunch of maps that are very similar. I think of it in the same way as what Orda is saying, maps would lose their uniqueness. I know having more choices is a good thing, but do we want to set a limit on this? I see the appeal of having so many maps it'd be hard to remember what each one looked like, and therefore harder to prepare for it...its the whole skill will overcome thing.

IMO maybe we should decide the criteria for different types of maps, then choose how many of each we want. That would leave room for anyone who wants to make a unique map to do so without feeling that their efforts don't matter. Because as it is right now, the maps that we can basically classify as being the same type of map are the same map...only with a few variations to them. Like having a map at point 31 150, and then 32 150, 33 150....it might not be necessary because they'll be very similar maps. So should there be guidelines to this, so we're not overwhelmed with a bunch of unimportant maps?

[Nigel]

Definitely, Alewyn.

There is no point in having 20 maps that are all flat desert.

Then with those maps which have features on them perhaps 5 or 10 different ones of each type would be enough. But I dont really have enough experience to judge on the numbers here.

But what I am looking forward, if this is possible, are a few maps with "special" locations: Fight in the shadow of the Pyramids. Battle as the Colossus of Rhodes watches from the background. Hide your troops in the Hanging Gardens.

And, of course as a joke, it is up to everyone himself to identify the coordinates of the place where he lives and defend his home town.

[Louis de la Ferte Ste Colombe]

It's very true we are going to be overwhelmed by the number of maps

I am not sure we all need to have the same maps available, after all, since it's only a local file to mod, we can put different maps in our list. It's pretty much up to everyone.

What I would do though, is to try to be more descriptive in the map title, so that people knows where they are going, and to give the XX YY coords in the map's name.

Looking at the battle editor, I did not get the feeling that 30 150, 31 150, 32 150 were identical. They share identical features, such as model used, type of vegetations, etc, but positions of hills, etc are different, making them different maps.
But not all of them are suitable for MPs. A topic dedicated to MP map "good spots" would be very interesting indeed!

Regarding special locations; I had a look at special locations, I am not sure it works. At least in the battle editor, if you look at pyramid location, you won't find the pyramid there. I'll check that in MP...
It is possible with the battle editor to add in a map all the specials... but that might be a different kind of mod...

Louis,

[Iluvatar]

Here is a question that someone may be able to answer for me.

In editing maps I have not found a way to allow choice of units in MP. Perhaps someone can help me. The only thing I have been able to do is to create aklliances and pre-choose the units.

How do you go about allowing uncensored unit selection? And is there a way yto eliminate the need for alliances, so that any faction can play with another in MP?

Did I miss something obvious somewhere?

Sry if this is a stupid question.

[Iluvatar]

I am trying to create unique maps, not the ones available in SP.

[Iluvatar]

If you can help, please see my 2 previous posts. :)

[Louis de la Ferte Ste Colombe]

To allow "real custom maps" for MP, you need to press F1, and tick allow maps for MP.

Unrelated note, although it would be a good topic for custom map: if in the custom location I pick a square located on a wonder, the wonder is not present on the battle map.

So, for a battles next to the Pyramid, custom maps seem to be the way to go.

Louis,